Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[DarkStorm]

https://www.facebook.com/TomiLahren/vid ... 978380087/

[Raga]

Also, you right, both might have been close to end of their terms, which would explain this. But the problem is the timing and the way how this firing was done. In both cases, it gives impression that these people were fired, because they opposed Trump's orders. This further implies that Trump can and wants to get rid of everyone that opposes him and he is ready to do it with questionable rights.

Just watch out, in weeks to come, Trump will fire everyone, who opposes him and fills those roles with spineless "Yes-men" human drones.

She was just "acting" attorney general, basically waiting for Trump's pick to finish with the hearings and approval process. This move was purely symbolic. She was going to go the way of the dodo in less than a week regardless. I don't know about the other guy, but I imagine it was the same.

[Mobius_118]

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/01/31/1 ... b-threats/

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Switch a few words around, and it applies to what's going on right now, but they sure as fuck are coming for the Jews as well. Attacking preschools with bomb threats...these are the people emboldened by the trump rhetoric.

Good job, 46% of the country. You voted in a Nazi.

[FrozenShadow]

Good job, 46% of the country. You voted in a Nazi.

Actually, it's much less than 46%. As 45% of the people, who had right to vote, didn't vote at all.

So, it's actually only about 1/3 of country that's responsible for this current situation.

[Raga]

I've said before that if we had mandatory voting, it would sort out a lot of our problems. Every time I say this though, it seems like everybody panics with something along the lines of "NOOOOO!!! Then STUPID people will vote!" Well, it seems like stupid people are already voting. At least nobody could claim a president was illegitimate with no electoral college and complete voter turnout.

[FrozenShadow]

I've said before that if we had mandatory voting, it would sort out a lot of our problems. Every time I say this though, it seems like everybody panics with something along the lines of "NOOOOO!!! Then STUPID people will vote!" Well, it seems like stupid people are already voting. At least nobody could claim a president was illegitimate with no electoral college and complete voter turnout.

Yep, I totally agree. Of course, that also means that there should be good presidential candidates too. This time around, both major options just were utterly horrible choices.

[FrozenShadow]

The more and more I think about this, the more I get worried over Bannon's ever increasing influence and power. Now that Bannon is in NSC and that it's necessary for director of national intelligence and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff be in all meetings.

Even worse is that NSC had actually right to pass kill orders, even for American citizens, if they are classified as terrorist. This is dangerous as this literally gives NCS right to potentially kill anyone in the name of counter-terrorism. And you can bet Trump and Bannon very least will use this and he could very easily start targeting people by saying they are "terrorists". And because these meeting doesn't require joint chiefs or intelligence folks and Bannon loves "alternative facts"... this is recipe for disaster.... or worse, new secret police ala Bannon's SS.

[Vol]

As it turns out, expanding the powers of a branch of government that routinely changes hands isn't the best idea if you don't want to let someone you don't like have those powers.

[Mazder]

I've said before that if we had mandatory voting, it would sort out a lot of our problems. Every time I say this though, it seems like everybody panics with something along the lines of "NOOOOO!!! Then STUPID people will vote!" Well, it seems like stupid people are already voting. At least nobody could claim a president was illegitimate with no electoral college and complete voter turnout.

I think the major argument against that is "then politicians only need to focus ont he big cities/dense population areas and they could potentially win" which would mean entire states get outvoted by a single city.
I am not sure if that is entirely fair either.

[Raga]

I've said before that if we had mandatory voting, it would sort out a lot of our problems. Every time I say this though, it seems like everybody panics with something along the lines of "NOOOOO!!! Then STUPID people will vote!" Well, it seems like stupid people are already voting. At least nobody could claim a president was illegitimate with no electoral college and complete voter turnout.

I think the major argument against that is "then politicians only need to focus ont he big cities/dense population areas and they could potentially win" which would mean entire states get outvoted by a single city.
I am not sure if that is entirely fair either.

That's why we have a bicameral legislature with only one being based on population. If Congress was doing its job, we wouldn't need the chief executive to act like a monarch to get anything done. A lot of the problem lies in Congressional partisan gridlock, and the partisan gridlock has gotten worse because of radicalism. But the radicalism is there in no small part because of sudden, forced social change enforced from a top-down approach instead of leaving such things up to the laboratory of the states (or a general agreement of states via Congress) as it was meant to be. That causes people who hate the imposed change to vote in politicians who swear they will make resisting said change their main priority, increasing gridlock, therefore need for executive action to get anything done. It's a vicious cycle. Reactionaries and SJW alike need to get it through their skulls that gradualism will out. It's the *only* way sustainable cultural and social change can happen, unless you are willing to get out the torches and pitchforks and murder everyone who disagrees with you.

[Vol]

Trump has nominated Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court. 49 years old, he'll be on a good long time if he gets in.

[FrozenShadow]

Trump has nominated Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court. 49 years old, he'll be on a good long time if he gets in.

Hopefully he will do good job and truly upholds the constitution as great importance as he said. It will be needed.

[Vol]

I briefly looked him up, seems a standard conservative, though he hasn't written anything explicitly about Roe v Wade apparently. Then I heard 3 other judges are around 80, and Ginsburg is 83, so Trump might get more in there, which is a mixed bag.

[Mobius_118]

That seat should've been filled by President Obama's pick.

GOP blocking the pick with no justification is unconstitutional.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

We must secure the existence of our shitposts and a future for dank memes.

#FreeKekistan
#Kekistanipride
#RetakeKekstantinople

[Alienmorph]

#MakeKekistanGreatAgain was too obvious?

Or #KekmericaFirst maybe?

[Mobius_118]

Gotta make Americanstan great again, from New Yorquatar to Califorabia.

In truth we'll see trump and all of his little maggots in the cabinet get fired, impeached, and tossed in the street. They've done enough in the first week to warrant it.

It's costing the US Taxpayers 400,000 dollars a day for that stupid man to have his family in their Trump Tower for Secret Service coverage.

Repealing the ACA is going to cause 43,956 people to die annually, cost the US 3 million permanent jobs, and cost the people 350 billion.

The wall is a pointless venture that can be easily bypassed.

An all Muslim ban from countries that trump doesn't have business dealings with ripped families apart, and is useless anyway because we've had 0 murders from refugees, but a fuckload from white nationalists, some of which are in it for the lulz. Oh but Saudi Arabia's not on that list, even though Bin Laden was a Saudi, as was 15 of the 19 hijackers for 9/11.

Nationally we have white nationalists burning mosques, threatening Jewish centers, shooting up mosques up in Canada...

It's all real funny, just a hoot. People dying, scared some wannabe Nazi is going to burn down their home, afraid for their children. So fucking funny.

Cue shitlord's shitposting and not actually contributing.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

#MakeKekistanGreatAgain was too obvious?

Or #KekmericaFirst maybe?

The fact that you people don't know what Kekistan is is tragic.

We ethnic shitposters are an oppressed people.

[FrozenShadow]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/opinions/keep-refugees-deport-trump-obeidallah-opinion/index.html?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial

Now, isn't that funny. According to his own immigration laws, Trump wouldn't be allowed to come in US. But now he is the one who decides what are "American values".

[FrozenShadow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/republicans-ram-through-committee-approval-of-trump-cabinet-nominees/2017/02/01/aa2b5458-e87f-11e6-b82f-687d6e6a3e7c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-low_confirmations-1030a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.855643557a83

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/politics/republicans-vote-to-suspend-committee-rules-advance-mnuchin-price-nominations/index.html

I guess the next step for GOP and Trump is to disband democratic party in the name of disrupting decision making process by trying to make it difficult and uselessly harrow it.

[Croatsky]

Democrats lost all means to stop Trump's regime through legal legislator means and Republicans had shown they are full on with Trump, including "dissenters" like McCain.

There is no way there will be fair Midterm elections be 2018, hell elections at all by the looks of things.

Only two things will happen, Democrats and Liberals fully submit and US as we know will seize to exist and will eventually fall due to GOP's unsustainable policies. Other scenario is, well, a civil war.

Both sceneries are not pretty, it's just world going under sooner or later with impossible to predict ending.

[FrozenShadow]

Democrats lost all means to stop Trump's regime through legal legislator means and Republicans had shown they are full on with Trump, including "dissenters" like McCain.

There is no way there will be fair Midterm elections be 2018, hell elections at all by the looks of things.

Only two things will happen, Democrats and Liberals fully submit and US as we know will seize to exist and will eventually fall due to GOP's unsustainable policies. Other scenario is, well, a civil war.

Both sceneries are not pretty, it's just world going under sooner or later with impossible to predict ending.

Third option is that majority of democrats will leave the country and leave rest of US to its faith. Fourth option is that democratic rich states will resign from federation and proclaim independence, though it could lead to civil war.

In any case, if things continue like this, United States of America might cease to exit as we knew it. After all, if this situation in US would repeat itself in any other country, everyone would openly be talking about coup d'état.

[Croatsky]

Third option is that majority of democrats will leave the country and leave rest of US to its faith.

Mass emigration in such scale is extremely unlikely and I'm being generous with my wording.

Fourth option is that democratic rich states will resign from federation and proclaim independence, though it could lead to civil war.

California with West Coast palls states, as well New York with it's East coast palls, would unlikely want to secede anyway. If there were to be a civil war, it will be with a goal to overthrown Trump's regime and remove Republican party out of existence.

In any case, if things continue like this, United States of America might cease to exit as we knew it. After all, if this situation in US would repeat itself in any other country, everyone would openly be talking about coup d'état.

Which is scary as shit, US going down will cause chaos worldwide. Including in my region over Bosnia and Kosovo. Wars from 1990's were paused, not finished.

[Mobius_118]

Slobodan Milosevic...I remember that asshole.

[Croatsky]

Slobodan Milosevic...I remember that asshole.

Now we have president of Republika Srpska Milorad Dodik who wants for Republika Srpska to secede from Bosnia, which will re-start the war.

And then there is Serbia with it's prime minister Aleksandar Vučić and president Tomislav Nikolić, both far-right radicals that were involved with not only with Milošević's regime, but also with Chetniks. Chentniks are a Serbian extremists that want to create Greater Serbia and ethnically cleanse Albanians, Bosniaks and Croats from what they deem their land. Oh and Serbia has been gearing up it's military with massive pace with Putin's regime aid, almost free of charge.

Serbia also still wants to get Kosovo back and Kosovo is not capable to defend against Serbian military without foreign intervention. Albania might come and try to save Kosovo, in case of NATO being crippled or collapsed.

And Montenegro is in near civil war levels of high tensions, between pro-Russian and pro-Serbian radicals going against pro-EU and pro-NATO ruling government.

Meanwhile my country is led by morons that allowed for out airforce to be grounded due to lack of foresight to modernize it. As well overall modernization of military were met by mixed successes. And our retard president and prime minister wants to return mandatory military service, one we can't afford and is practically useless program in peace time. So instead of using funds we have to properly modernize our army, they want to waste money on useless conscription.

Shit here is not looking good.

[FrozenShadow]

Fourth option is that democratic rich states will resign from federation and proclaim independence, though it could lead to civil war.

California with West Coast palls states, as well New York with it's East coast palls, would unlikely want to secede anyway. If there were to be a civil war, it will be with a goal to overthrown Trump's regime and remove Republican party out of existence.

Eh, there were already talks about California and its potential independence right after elections. Nothing all serious at the time of course. But if things do continue like this, it might actually become viable option to get out of this madness.

As for civil war part, what I meant, was that some states wanted an independence would cause that civil war. If California and New York would want or demand independence, rest of the US would never allow it. California alone forms huge slice of US whole economy. To lose that for the rest of America would be disastrous, so they can't let that happen. That would then lead to some states siding with California (New York) and some against it and then it would end up like (so far) only civil war.

Though, I honestly don't know which would be worse. Open civil war in US or Trump/Bannon lead dictatorship. Both are horrible option and I don't know which would be more "preferable" or "lesser evil".

[Raga]

Democrats lost all means to stop Trump's regime through legal legislator means and Republicans had shown they are full on with Trump, including "dissenters" like McCain.

There is no way there will be fair Midterm elections be 2018, hell elections at all by the looks of things.

Only two things will happen, Democrats and Liberals fully submit and US as we know will seize to exist and will eventually fall due to GOP's unsustainable policies. Other scenario is, well, a civil war.

Both sceneries are not pretty, it's just world going under sooner or later with impossible to predict ending.

...Yea, that's not going to happen. I was thinking of writing a WoT explaining why that's not going to happen, but no...if people actually think we are the brink of Civil War, I don't think any amount of explaining would do any good.

[FrozenShadow]

*Snip*
Shit here is not looking good.

Sadly, watching the situation in the world right now, I'm more and more convinced that the next huge conflict is coming. Not just little "border spat" like The Falklands War or Iraq wars or even Vietnam. We are heading into another full scale world war.

Sigh, I guess Terminator 2 said this matter best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_4EWSuzQY

It's human nature to be greedy and self-destructive. And everything WW I and II might have taught us, had been forgotten by now. It had been 2-3 generations since people actually felt what the war means, how it affects everything. Current generations are just reading the horrors of total war from history books, which can't really convey the true horrors of the war.

When you add the facts that people aren't interested of history and all the war games out there, lots of people just see wars as games and have no idea what it really means. Todays terrorism doesn't help the matters at all, as because of it, people will start to see some people as their enemies and when it becomes fear and hate, then people are more than willing to start to destroy those, they hate/fear to ease their own ones.

[FrozenShadow]

...Yea, that's not going to happen. I was thinking of writing a WoT explaining why that's not going to happen, but no...if people actually think we are the brink of Civil War, I don't think any amount of explaining would do any good.

Well, I'm interested to hear.

And even if I do speak (a lot of) civil war possibility, I don't think we are there yet (or that will ever actually happen). Alas, the reason why people even talk about it, is because of Trump. Not because he is bad president or that does weird decision. We talk about it, because Trump is so unpredictable (except that he angers easily, based on hear say). There is no way to predict, how he reacts and because of that, we have also no way to predict, how people will react to Trump's reactions.

What further conflicts this matter is that some of Trump supporters (definitely not all) are so rapid believers that their devotion to Trump is near cult like. They believe what he or his alternative fact spreading "media" outlets says, no matter how untrue or barely there truth it would be. Simply said These people genuinely believes all Trump does is right. Because of this, we can't even predict, how these people will react, if Trump would be removed by now with impeachment. Even the simple act of removing Trump could cause....if not out right civil war, then at least some real open violence. Not just riots like in Inauguration day, but armed conflicts (as again, some Trump supporters are just that rapid).

Simply said, people talk about potential civil war, because Trump had proved to be totally unpredictable president, whom close circle have their own personal agendas and US best interested isn't part of those agendas. There is no way to know, what he does next as so far it's clear that he hadn't though nor cared of consequences of his actions.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

>Unpredictable
>Is doing literally everything he's said he would do since before he won the nomination
>Unpredictable

Fear porn is amazing.

[FrozenShadow]

>Unpredictable
>Is doing literally everything he's said he would do since before he won the nomination
>Unpredictable

Fear porn is amazing.

Yes, unpredictable. Sure, Trump is doing what he promised. Yet, what makes it unpredictable is how he plan to do things.

Also, what really speaks of his unpredictability is his reactions to various things, like his inauguration crowd size, his action to totally remove anything climate change related as if trying to deny it's existence, making order/decision without even consulting his own party (like this immigration ban).

And worst part, Trump's idea of truth/facts. The simple matter of fact is that you can never know or believe anything that Trump says. Like 70% of his saying are purely lies and 2x15% are half lies and somewhat truths and then the bases his action on those. He makes decisions based on majorly his own damn alternative facts.

So, yes Trump might do what he promises. But he is unpredictable as hell in anything he says and how he does what he promises.

[FrozenShadow]

Oh hoh, 2 GOP senators (Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski) seems to oppose Betsy Devos choice as Education secretary. Hopefully there will be one or two more as Devos is absolutely the worst choice of all of Trump picks.

At least these GOP senators have some integrity left and not just go with "party power!".

[Mobius_118]

Jerry Falwell Jr. is appointed to reform US Universities...

To preface, his father was a fundamentalist christian lunatic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell

His son isn't much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell_Jr.

And now that scumfucker is going to 'reform' US Universities to be much more malleable to this...fucked up agenda that's going on, right now.

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/02/01/t ... versities/

Fucks sake.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Well well less Critical Race theory classes.

More DEUS VULT WE WILL TAKE JERUSALEM!

Now that's what I call an improvement!

[Vol]

I'm wondering if Betsy was a sacrificial lamb so the other cabinet members got in. Of course, she could still get in. I know nothing about her compared to the others, other than that she appears to be the weakest one up.

[Vol]

In today's example of the media's high standards for journalistic integrity, the AP received a transcript from an ~anonymous source~ that supposedly was of Trump speaking to the Mexican president, and basically shittalking him and all but threatening to send troops to deal with the drug problem. The kind of stuff that would cause a war. Both governments have flatly denied the transcript is real, and naturally major media outlets are reporting on it anyway.

However, it is entirely possible that behind closed doors, he's using bullish negotiation tactics, from a position of strength, to basically bully Mexico. So I'm sorta conflicted between the very real chance this is more hysterical fake news, or the very real chance Trump's really going at them hard.

[Raga]

At this point, I pretty much don't trust news unless it comes from NPR or some print magazine or paper that's been around a hundred years and its bottom line isn't based on having breaking news every half hour. I visit stuff all over the map ranging from the National Review to Mother Jones, but the ones I trust the most or find the most insightful are consistently the Atlantic and NPR.

Another semi viable tactic is to just find some respectable but mid-range city paper from some Cleveland sized city. Such a paper has a reputation to uphold so it doesn't go in for sensationalism and it's unlikely to blow open big stories like the Washington Post or New York Times because it's just not that important so there's less push for a "scoop." Such papers are usually pretty dry and slightly behind the times but that's not really a bad thing.

[Azint]

We were talking about Trump's cabinet today, and something came up that I was not aware of. Ike Perlmutter was in talks to be a part of Trump's little party as Treasury, or something of that regard, and while he is not on-staff in that department, he has been seen hanging out with them. I saw that hilariously shady photo, right out of a movie, or perhaps a Marvel comic. I actually hope it turns true, because Ike Perlmutter is a grotesque and stingy human being, and no one would win if he took treasury. His plan for the military would be to give each soldier a handful of bullets and nothing more.

[FrozenShadow]

So, Trump seems to plan to destroy the law that prevents political activity by churches. Yeah, I don't think that will be good idea. Politics and religion should never be mixed together. It's already bad enough as it's right now.

[Mobius_118]

If you want to succeed, you give the public education. If you want to keep the public stupid, give them religion.

He did say he loves the poorly educated.

[FrozenShadow]

If you want to succeed, you give the public education. If you want to keep the public stupid, give them religion.

He did say he loves the poorly educated.

Obviously, after all knowledge is dangerous, using your brains even more so.

Anyway, if this ban is removed, I guess in the future elections, we will see campaigns adds saying "this and that candidate is Gods selected one" or something along the lines of that.

That will surely go so damn well and definitely won't increase fanaticism at all.

[FrozenShadow]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/02/steve-bannon-donald-trump-war-south-china-sea-no-doubt

Honesty, after guy (Bannon) talks like in the interview, people let him to be not only close to Trump, but seemingly one of his most important advisors. Worst of all is that you can actually even see the starting seed for this whole thing, what with US new stand on putting Iran "on notice".

[Vol]

So, Trump seems to plan to destroy the law that prevents political activity by churches. Yeah, I don't think that will be good idea. Politics and religion should never be mixed together. It's already bad enough as it's right now.

I'm fine with this by dint of believing that no religious institution should be tax exempt. So I don't rightly care if they preach a (legal) political message.

Same principle as to why I opposed the SC ruling on gay marriage. It's not the government's place to be the gatekeepers of marriage, and getting legal rights and financial entanglement baked in only makes it worse. So everyone should be able to marry everyone and anything, however they wish to, and Uncle Sam can keep quiet about it. Adding a SC ruling on top of the bloat makes it that much harder to get their talons out.

[Vol]

All day on talk radio, right wing no less, I was hearing people himming and hawing about Trump asking for people to pray for Arnold's ratings on The Apprentice. All day.

I'm watching the speech right now, and it's part of an opening monologue where he's making jokes. For fuck's sake.

[FrozenShadow]

All day on talk radio, right wing no less, I was hearing people himming and hawing about Trump asking for people to pray for Arnold's ratings on The Apprentice. All day.

I'm watching the speech right now, and it's part of an opening monologue where he's making jokes. For fuck's sake.

So, is that "fuck's sake" for Trump saying what he said or was it for how people reacted to that speech (in other words, how seriously people seemed to take it)?

[Vol]

Mostly the latter, but his delivery wasn't great. Trump doesn't have the chops for dry sarcasm, gotta lay it on or it sounds too literal. Plus the joke itself isn't far off from something he'd actually say. But that "during an opening monologue, Trump joked" does not appear to be conveyed by the gatekeepers (CNN was the source the radio guys were using) of information is a real humdinger.

Same deal with the Mexico call. I was correct in hedging my bet, because it appears like he did say something about bad hombres and sending in the military to deal with the cartels, but it was supposed to have been said in jest. So his amateur comedy career is getting spun like a gay man on an inverted bar stool. At least the Arnold comment, the Mexico call, I'm willing to believe it was an actual threat.

[Croatsky]

@Vol, what's with you and desperately trying to defend Trump?

Trump is a narcissists with history of making many threats. I mean Christ, it was barely a week since he threatened to declare martial law in Chicago, over a false Fox News report.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Praise Kek.

This might blow your mind Croatsky but some people are actually on board. Either because they don't buy the MSM narrative for good reason, because they genuinely support some of the things he's trying to do, for the sheer keks, or get forced into defending him by watching how pathetically pathologically dishonest the left has become.

[Vol]

@Croat: I reject the premise of the question. It implies motive and attempts to kafkatrap.

It would be similar to if I asked you, "If Trump is a thin-skinned, incompetent monster, why does it require a concentrated campaign of lies, astroturfing, and political violence to expose him?" And that's an unfair question.

@GAC: I'm on board with some policies, namely reforming immigration, returning American industry, energy independence, delegating social issues to the states, etc. The authoritarian stuff, not so much; the total support for cops, a willingness to use the domestic spying mechanisms Bush and Obama implemented, doesn't understand or like net neutrality, and so on. I think he'll do more good than bad, but it'll be harder to dismantle the surveillance state. Plus if the H1B visas can finally get exposed as yet another avenue for companies to exploit foreign workers at the expense of citizens, I might finally get a goddamn tech job.

[FrozenShadow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/02/03/trump-to-sign-executive-order-calling-for-rollback-of-wall-street-reform/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_mm-doddfrank-435am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.74a633124534

Oh look, finally Trump does something good. Now that US had finally recovered from Subprime mortgage crisis in 2008-2009, US can now do it again. Let's make America collapse again!

Really, there were good reason this law was made and now Trump wants to remove it. This really looks more like he wants to make rich richer and poor poorer.... or force yet, make the poor pay the mistakes and greediness of the rich.