Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[TheodoricFriede]

Seriously, just find a new group. Go away.

[Sinekein]

Amusingly, no one asked you.

Amusingly, I wasn't talking to you.

[Mobius_118]

Seriously, just find a new group. Go away.

Here's a thought, how about you leave? If your hatred for me is so great that a simple addon to the facts behind something that adds to the conversation makes you explode into an incomprehensible rage, then I'm not the problem, you are.

[TheodoricFriede]

Because I'm here to do more then bitch at me, and scream about politics.

[Mobius_118]

If I recall correctly, you're the one who enjoys using caps lock and extreme hatred. You're the only one screaming right now.

[Raga]

It's too bad we can't find some way to chain a turbine to this particular merry-go-round of a thread. It would solve the world's green energy crisis.

[Rune]

-

[TheodoricFriede]

If I recall correctly, you're the one who enjoys using caps lock and extreme hatred. You're the only one screaming right now.

And yet here you are. Still only bitching at me. Still only screaming about politics. Still failing to understand how much of a parody of yourself you have become.

Everyone. Sees. Through. You.

[TheodoricFriede]

Do you think I haven't tried?

Do you actually think I haven't tried that?

Do you think I haven't repeatedly proposed a scenario in which both of us set each-other to ignore, never to interact again? Do you think I have not suggested that this is upheld under punishment of Permanent Ban?

Do you really think that I have any desire to interact with Mobius ever again?

Don't tell me, dont even tell Mobius. Tell Vol.

[Mobius_118]

Whatever you say.

[Mobius_118]

You are one psychotic individual, and you know what? You continuing this tirade is only showing everyone here that you're the fucking nut case.

[TheodoricFriede]

Everyone. Sees. Through. You.

[Mobius_118]

You need to be medicated.

[Mazder]

Honestly if Mobius would just use the ignore feature this'd all be at an end, or at least a start of it.
Mobius won't use the ignore feature on the website, because...well because he feels you can't ignore people in real life...despite this not being real life...so that argument is invalid anyway.

I mean, seriously, other than pride, what's stopping this from happening?
If Theo needs to be medicated then what about you Mobius?
If we take your stance then all you're really doing is poking fun at someone you claim to need mental health help, and you refuse to do the thing that might actually help...so....where do you come off as the good guy in either scenario? Let alone right?

[Mobius_118]

Perhaps, and this is just an idea, he should refrain from exploding like a psychopath when I dare log in to see what's going on here. I did nothing to set him off tonight, except dare add on to a discussion of scotch. Oh no, I dared to quote him as well! How scandalous and insulting! The ignore feature is stupid anyway. It's basically forced censorship, and no matter how crazy Theo gets, or how retarded GAC is, I want to see so I can smack down the stupid idea that trickle down economics works.

On the subject of medication, I don't need it. I'm not exploding over a simple interaction that had zero inflammatory commentary. He is. Does that sound healthy to you? I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

[Raga]

We have a high immigration rate in France and we have mostly avoided outbreaks of avoidable diseases - antivaxxers are the ones responsible when that happens (and it's not necessarily in poor, migrant-heavy areas).

Nitpick: I wasn't implying migrants are dirty foreigners swimming with contagions. My point was that the kinds of jobs they realistically get are not enough to provide them with what we consider the lowest common denominator of acceptable standard of living here without assistance.

The conundrum is always, and will always be, "we don't have money for this". But there's money. In tax havens, either outside or inside (Vermont) the US. By getting it the US could really pay for a lot of healthcare, maybe even a couple of walls. Also if the FBI started also looking at shady dealings from US companies, instead of only displaying efficiency when it comes to hammering down EU ones.

Sure, there's *some* money. But the issues are caused by more than just not taxing the rich enough. There are many structural problems throughout society that feed the current class stratification. And there are some problems you can't fix by just throwing more money at them. (An example is how the school system is funded. Increasing taxes really doesn't do much because the underlying problem isn't that we don't collect enough money in taxes, but that we distribute the tax money in a really stupid way. Namely, rich districts generate the most taxes and then they get to keep most of it. So it's entirely possible for wealthy residents of such districts to campaign for more taxes as a means of decreasing income inequality, keep most of the extra revenue in their own district for their own kids, and then write off the price increase as a tax exemption at the federal level to make other people pay for it anyway).

Our current immigration system is *designed* to increase income inequality. It's *designed* to channel most of the GDP profit into the hands of the upper middle class and the rich. There is no way to actually undo that underlying dynamic without a consequence that the number of low-skill immigrants is reduced.

Except outsourcing is by essence something that can only work temporarily - because you make whoever is working richer over time, see China - before you're back with the same problem. Automation meanwhile is an utopia: there will always be a need for cheap labor, and the richer a society gets, the harder it is to find "natural" members who want to do them.

Sure, but isn't that the actual long-term goal? To bring the global South into something approximating economic parity with the developed world? Outsourcing of some stuff is actually a way better way to do that than to relocate some trivial percentage of the cheap labor pool over here, where they live in terrible conditions and send back pennies in remittance.

And I know I rant about the fallacy of assuming that markets create Rule of Law rather than the other way around (which is the argument used to support rampant free market liberalization everywhere), but there is is actually one place where there is a kernel of truth behind this.

One of the huge aspects of "Rule of Law" that actually make markets work is property rights. And inasmuch as some countries have squashy property rights, foreign investors buying things there and workers getting paid more and thus buying more stuff both have an incentive to push for decent property rights. (Granted, there are also 10,000 ways huge corporations can exploit this or use property rights to crush native workers as well).

Automation is also an interesting philosophical concept, because its logical extreme is a world where working is unnecessary, which means that the concept of personal wealth will need to be redefined. We're far from there, and I wager that at this rate Earth will be fucked up beyond repair before we can reach it.

Not necessarily. I'm hardly a Marxist, but Marxism actually has some semi-useful things to say here. The people with "the means of production" have no reason to allow such a redefinition of wealth. And it even goes beyond that to positions that don't control capitol but that are prestigious for whatever reason. (There have been algorithms better at diagnosing diseases than doctors since the 1970s as one example). These are more like a modern version of guilds (which Adam Smith railed about incidentally), which artificially constrain membership and exert requirements high enough to ensure the position guaranties a certain income. This isn't going to go away. The most you can hope for is to create a society that has enough of these positions that they employ most of the population and that they generate enough wealth to support a tax system sufficient to support the x% of people who inevitably don't make it.

And there needs to be actual social mobility or at least enough social mobility that people at the bottom have a recourse other than radicalism to have any realistic prospects for change. I'd actually say that social mobility is more important than reducing income inequality. As I said a while back, most cashiers don't care that the CEO makes 350X what they make. What they care about is that they can't pay their rent, they have 0 way to get a better job, and the CEO doesn't care.

[Raga]

I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Dude, do not put words into my mouth. If you are going to quote me, just find the old post and actually quote me. Don't painfully and willfully re-purpose what I actually said into what you want it to mean.

[Vol]

Jesus, I think the nights I go and do squats for a few hours is cursed.

This has been going on round and round for 3 years now. Theo and Mob hate each other and nothing we've tried has worked, other than letting it flare up and burn out every couple of weeks/months. I in turn have received quite a few messages from people not involved asking me to take a more active stance in dealing with this shit. I've been fine with the politics/slapfight topic being the place for slapfights, so long as it stays within the realm of being mean to each other, but apparently other users have not.

So. I want you guys on the record then, any of you that care about these blowups. What do you want done when Theo and Mob go at it? Theoretically, I could fiddle with the forum software and try to make it so they can't see each other, ever, but I'm honestly sure if it's possible at my knowledge level. I could just delete everything when it happens, though I dislike it. I could hand out temp bans. I could empower users I think are trustworthy to do these things when I'm not around. Or we can do nothing, and let the hatred burn out after a few hours like it always does. Give me your opinions.

[TheodoricFriede]

Give me your opinions.

You KNOW what my opinion is, considering I have been asking for it for years.

[Raga]

Why can't there literally just be a slapfight thread? I get the original idea of tying it to politics because people lose their *shit* about politics all the time, but there's really only 3 posters here who can't talk about politics without being reduced to round after round of stupid insults (GAC, Mobius, & Theo).

Seriously, it can be the "go sit in a corner" thread. I hypothesize that nobody else will give a fuck about that thread and won't even look at it or even post in it. (And I actually think with no audience, even they will stop it eventually).

I could be wrong but it seems like a good interim thing to try before resorting to censorship or bans or whatever.

*Edit* Isn't there some way to hide threads? How nuanced is that? Can you hide certain threads from certain members? If so, anybody who wants could opt to have that thread hidden and they never even have to see it.

[Sinekein]

Nitpick: I wasn't implying migrants are dirty foreigners swimming with contagions. My point was that the kinds of jobs they realistically get are not enough to provide them with what we consider the lowest common denominator of acceptable standard of living here without assistance.

No worries, I have debated with you for long enough to know you don't hold that view. I was only referring to the efficiency that can be reached by universal free/cheap healthcare.

[Sinekein]

What do you want done when Theo and Mob go at it? Theoretically, I could fiddle with the forum software and try to make it so they can't see each other, ever, but I'm honestly sure if it's possible at my knowledge level. I could just delete everything when it happens, though I dislike it. I could hand out temp bans. I could empower users I think are trustworthy to do these things when I'm not around. Or we can do nothing, and let the hatred burn out after a few hours like it always does. Give me your opinions.

Honestly almost every time it happens it follows the same pattern. Theo posts something in the discussion thread, Mob answers without being agressive but knowing full well that it will cause drama, Theo insults him, and we're gone for another round.

If you don't like editing or removing messages, I suggest creating a "Mobius/Theo Insult Trading thread" where you could move these messages. This way, you are not altering content and you won't feel like an Orwellian editor. And if you're wary of abusing your power, I suggest you nominate 1-2 people to consult with if the decision does not seem obvious (like Raga or Rune I would say). You could either lock this thread up and only craft it with moved messages, or make Mobius and Theo the only possible contributors.

Honestly I have never seen you abusing your power here so I don't see why you would start, so I would trust your decisions when it comes to which messages to displace.

In any event, moving messages is probably more doable than changing the code so that two users can't see each other.

[Mobius_118]

I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Dude, do not put words into my mouth. If you are going to quote me, just find the old post and actually quote me. Don't painfully and willfully re-purpose what I actually said into what you want it to mean.[/quote]

I am not defending everything that Theo says on here (and he totally has this thing which I have referred to as the "mood aura," which means that his entire surroundings just get saturated by whatever mood he's in even when he's not saying anything or doing anything for some bizarre reason), but this particular dumpster fire of a situation has had input from both sides.

I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Dude, do not put words into my mouth. If you are going to quote me, just find the old post and actually quote me. Don't painfully and willfully re-purpose what I actually said into what you want it to mean.

There it is.

It was paraphrasing, and I didn't deviate from what you said.

Jesus, I think the nights I go and do squats for a few hours is cursed.

This has been going on round and round for 3 years now. Theo and Mob hate each other and nothing we've tried has worked, other than letting it flare up and burn out every couple of weeks/months. I in turn have received quite a few messages from people not involved asking me to take a more active stance in dealing with this shit. I've been fine with the politics/slapfight topic being the place for slapfights, so long as it stays within the realm of being mean to each other, but apparently other users have not.

So. I want you guys on the record then, any of you that care about these blowups. What do you want done when Theo and Mob go at it? Theoretically, I could fiddle with the forum software and try to make it so they can't see each other, ever, but I'm honestly sure if it's possible at my knowledge level. I could just delete everything when it happens, though I dislike it. I could hand out temp bans. I could empower users I think are trustworthy to do these things when I'm not around. Or we can do nothing, and let the hatred burn out after a few hours like it always does. Give me your opinions.

I'd rather put it to bed so we can communicate without him going off like a nuclear bomb every time I dare to quote him on a subject in a neutral manner.

Honestly almost every time it happens it follows the same pattern. Theo posts something in the discussion thread, Mob answers without being agressive but knowing full well that it will cause drama, Theo insults him, and we're gone for another round.

If you don't like editing or removing messages, I suggest creating a "Mobius/Theo Insult Trading thread" where you could move these messages. This way, you are not altering content and you won't feel like an Orwellian editor. And if you're wary of abusing your power, I suggest you nominate 1-2 people to consult with if the decision does not seem obvious (like Raga or Rune I would say).

Honestly I have never seen you abusing your power here so I don't see why you would start, so I would trust your decisions when it comes to which messages to displace.

In any event, moving messages is probably more doable than changing the code so that two users can't see each other.

I vote no on a Mob/Theo fight thread. I vote Theo puts his grievances to fucking rest.

[Raga]

I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Dude, do not put words into my mouth. If you are going to quote me, just find the old post and actually quote me. Don't painfully and willfully re-purpose what I actually said into what you want it to mean.

I am not defending everything that Theo says on here (and he totally has this thing which I have referred to as the "mood aura," which means that his entire surroundings just get saturated by whatever mood he's in even when he's not saying anything or doing anything for some bizarre reason), but this particular dumpster fire of a situation has had input from both sides.

I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Dude, do not put words into my mouth. If you are going to quote me, just find the old post and actually quote me. Don't painfully and willfully re-purpose what I actually said into what you want it to mean.

There it is.

It was paraphrasing, and I didn't deviate from what you said.

You conflated what I said "that he has this thing I call a mood aura" with your own assertion that he has a problem exploding into impotent rage. I never once said that. In fact, what I actually said is that Theo's mood is insanely infectious even when he's *not* doing anything dramatic.

(Again, that's not a defense of everything he's done, but I've never once said he had some kind of impotent rage problem. You are perfectly able to go on thinking that he does. Just don't use me for evidence to support that claim).

[Mobius_118]

Righto, my slight mistake.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Jesus, I think the nights I go and do squats for a few hours is cursed.

This has been going on round and round for 3 years now. Theo and Mob hate each other and nothing we've tried has worked, other than letting it flare up and burn out every couple of weeks/months. I in turn have received quite a few messages from people not involved asking me to take a more active stance in dealing with this shit. I've been fine with the politics/slapfight topic being the place for slapfights, so long as it stays within the realm of being mean to each other, but apparently other users have not.

So. I want you guys on the record then, any of you that care about these blowups. What do you want done when Theo and Mob go at it? Theoretically, I could fiddle with the forum software and try to make it so they can't see each other, ever, but I'm honestly sure if it's possible at my knowledge level. I could just delete everything when it happens, though I dislike it. I could hand out temp bans. I could empower users I think are trustworthy to do these things when I'm not around. Or we can do nothing, and let the hatred burn out after a few hours like it always does. Give me your opinions.

Have them put each other on ignore.

I'll be the first one to admit that I mostly lurk on this forum and usually stick to posting in this thread when I find something interesting or funny enough to want to share or when I feel like seeing how my favorite SJW Mobius is reacting to reality today and poking him with a stick.

But I do that because I enjoy it and I keep it here. The animosity they have is stronger and worse. Mobius continues to quote Theo in a "Neutral" manner knowing perfectly well the kind of response that will generate.

Whatever initially sparked this hatred there is very clearly one party determined to pick at that wound.

Have them put each other on ignore.

[TTTX]

That is absolutely not a healthy way to deal with personal relationships.

How would you deal with people that hate you for merely existing?

[Mazder]

----- REPLIES FROM LAST NIGHT SECTION BEGIN -----

Perhaps, and this is just an idea, he should refrain from exploding like a psychopath when I dare log in to see what's going on here. I did nothing to set him off tonight, except dare add on to a discussion of scotch. Oh no, I dared to quote him as well! How scandalous and insulting! The ignore feature is stupid anyway. It's basically forced censorship, and no matter how crazy Theo gets, or how retarded GAC is, I want to see so I can smack down the stupid idea that trickle down economics works.

On the subject of medication, I don't need it. I'm not exploding over a simple interaction that had zero inflammatory commentary. He is. Does that sound healthy to you? I'm not working myself into an impotent rage, unlike what Raga has posted here, publicly, about how Theo gets into a big mood.

Oh fuck off with the "forced censorship" bollocks.
It's not an affront to your freedom it's a bloody restraining order against Theo, at worst.
The only thing stopping it is your stupid mixture of pride and ego, and yes, that's even when comparing it to Theo as at least he's invited to solve the solution in a permanent setting using mechanics built into the site itself.

Jesus, I think the nights I go and do squats for a few hours is cursed.

This has been going on round and round for 3 years now. Theo and Mob hate each other and nothing we've tried has worked, other than letting it flare up and burn out every couple of weeks/months. I in turn have received quite a few messages from people not involved asking me to take a more active stance in dealing with this shit. I've been fine with the politics/slapfight topic being the place for slapfights, so long as it stays within the realm of being mean to each other, but apparently other users have not.

So. I want you guys on the record then, any of you that care about these blowups. What do you want done when Theo and Mob go at it? Theoretically, I could fiddle with the forum software and try to make it so they can't see each other, ever, but I'm honestly sure if it's possible at my knowledge level. I could just delete everything when it happens, though I dislike it. I could hand out temp bans. I could empower users I think are trustworthy to do these things when I'm not around. Or we can do nothing, and let the hatred burn out after a few hours like it always does. Give me your opinions.

Pretty sure you can enable the "ignore" feature onto their accounts at the admin level. Wouldn't know as I don't have access. I could always ask a mate of mine how it's done and copy-paste it to ya.

If that's not a viable solution then both of them using the ignore feature is one. It's an agreement to not interact. It's a damned "Non-Aggression Pact" if you want to put it into Paradox games terms.

What wont work is some kind of therapy session as Theo doesn't want to interact with Mobius. He wishes to be as removed from him and him alone as much as possible. He doesn't want to solve their problem as the problem he has with Mobius has offended him to the extent of it being actually painful upon his life. He doesn't want an apology, he doesn't want Mobius's redemption he just wants to forget about him.
This, is viable, people do it all the time in the real world, it's not a case of not being possible or plausible. If Theo never sees Mobius's posts he'll not talk about them, he'll not go into any opinion on them if they're invisible.
This would include quotes made by other peopel that include a post of Mobius's, but I honestly think it might just be time to find out if we can set up a "search for 'Mobius' and make the post invisible" type of system.

Why can't there literally just be a slapfight thread? I get the original idea of tying it to politics because people lose their *shit* about politics all the time, but there's really only 3 posters here who can't talk about politics without being reduced to round after round of stupid insults (GAC, Mobius, & Theo).

Seriously, it can be the "go sit in a corner" thread. I hypothesize that nobody else will give a fuck about that thread and won't even look at it or even post in it. (And I actually think with no audience, even they will stop it eventually).

I could be wrong but it seems like a good interim thing to try before resorting to censorship or bans or whatever.

*Edit* Isn't there some way to hide threads? How nuanced is that? Can you hide certain threads from certain members? If so, anybody who wants could opt to have that thread hidden and they never even have to see it.

Admin's could in theory.
I don't know if it'd be a case of them having to be active while they do it, or if it can be set up so they can be sent there at the press of a button.
Again, don't know but I can ask a mate who's done some website stuff and see if they know.

Honestly almost every time it happens it follows the same pattern. Theo posts something in the discussion thread, Mob answers without being agressive but knowing full well that it will cause drama, Theo insults him, and we're gone for another round.

If you don't like editing or removing messages, I suggest creating a "Mobius/Theo Insult Trading thread" where you could move these messages. This way, you are not altering content and you won't feel like an Orwellian editor. And if you're wary of abusing your power, I suggest you nominate 1-2 people to consult with if the decision does not seem obvious (like Raga or Rune I would say). You could either lock this thread up and only craft it with moved messages, or make Mobius and Theo the only possible contributors.

Honestly I have never seen you abusing your power here so I don't see why you would start, so I would trust your decisions when it comes to which messages to displace.

In any event, moving messages is probably more doable than changing the code so that two users can't see each other.

Trouble is with the "council" all the people who are seen by everyone to be impartial are not around as much as the others. Vol, Rune, Raga (to some extent), are all some of the lesser active members when it comes to arguments like these, and any judgement/action would always be reactionary, rather than preventative.
We'd still have the same problem, now with more people directly involved.

And, while I admire and appreciate how much Raga has been impartial regarding matters with Theo, I do have to mention she does have more direct involvement with one party than the other. If we're going to go down the roads of impartiality, that's a pretty obvious bias that would never be let into any court, Kangaroo or otherwise, lol.

I vote no on a Mob/Theo fight thread. I vote Theo puts his grievances to fucking rest.

I vote for you stop goading him, and don't play the "innocent little comment" card. You do goad him.
If you stop doing that the frequency of these incidents may halve.
He's laid out his terms. You leave him alone, don't mention him, don't imply to mention him, don't have any interaction involving him, or that can be traced back to him.
It's pretty easy to do. You just wont do it, so it continues.
Sinekin even laid out the formula;

Honestly almost every time it happens it follows the same pattern. Theo posts something in the discussion thread, Mob answers without being agressive but knowing full well that it will cause drama, Theo insults him, and we're gone for another round.

I've even bolded the relevant part.
You know full well when you'd cause drama and when you wouldn't.
So just stop doing that and we could have the stepping stones to a solution.

----- REPLIES FROM LAST NIGHT SECTION END -----


Honestly there will be no permanent solution until both parties understand that there is no way of "fixing" this.
To

Mobius

I say to please take the solution of the ignoring functions built into the site. Please take a first step into actually solving this rather than trying to "be the bigger man" in your eyes by trying some sort of Therapy solution. This will not work and you burned that bridge long ago, apparently. That olive branch has withered and died. It can not be used and will not help any longer.

To

Theo

I would say that while we're trying to implement this, please try and be better at not reacting to Mobius's goading. As much as you don't want to see him posting, we don't want to see you reacting to him posting, because we know that's the beginning of yet another argument. So while we're trying to stop you from being able to see his posts, can you please try to also not react so the arguments might stop, even temporarily?


Al in all, while I doubt it'll do much actual good and is still just a reactionary measure I think we could do with a thread to shove them in when they start arguing, or maybe temp bans to cool them both off.
Sadly no-one we trust to implement them are around at the time to do it.
Again, as much as I trust Raga I gotta say on principle alone that being involved with Theo places her in the "biases" camp even though she doesn't ever act like it, and I commend her for that.

Also, as a side note, so long as we're talking about permanent solutions/things for the site. Can we get a better solution for tagging people in a post?
There must be a better way of getting someone a notification to look at a post than just quoting them in it as I have done.

[TheodoricFriede]

Look i'm just going to re-iterate. I am asking for a complete nixing of interaction between he and I. Put each other on ignore. Forget the other exists. Never interact again. Ever.

And by god, if I break that rule, you can remove me from this group permanently, and you will NEVER see me again.

But all I ask is the same is applied to him.

[Sinekein]

That is absolutely not a healthy way to deal with personal relationships.

How would you deal with people that hate you for merely existing?

It is more suited to a psychology thread than a political one. Anyway.

I would suggest two options: either try to solve the relationship if it is possible (I do not say it is always the case, far from it), or to leave it behind altogether.

Putting a name on a shit list, Arya Stark-like, means that you are constantly bringing these people with you and in all likelihood they will weigh you down more than anything.

Now it's easier said than done obviously, but it can really feel like a burden you are ditching when you manage to go past these relationships. Sometimes it can't be done on your own, but you have psychologists or psychotherapists whose job it is to help people come to term with the issues in their life. I saw one for about 8 months ending last summer, and it was a tremendous help sorting things I had not even realized needed sorting.

Trouble is with the "council" all the people who are seen by everyone to be impartial are not around as much as the others. Vol, Rune, Raga (to some extent), are all some of the lesser active members when it comes to arguments like these, and any judgement/action would always be reactionary, rather than preventative.
We'd still have the same problem, now with more people directly involved.

And, while I admire and appreciate how much Raga has been impartial regarding matters with Theo, I do have to mention she does have more direct involvement with one party than the other. If we're going to go down the roads of impartiality, that's a pretty obvious bias that would never be let into any court, Kangaroo or otherwise, lol.

I merely mentioned them to give Vol an additional option if he feels like he need outside advice in a given situation. I would trust him to take the proper decision, as I have never seen him abusing his power here despite very much having the power to do so if he so wished.

I was not looking for impartiality, more level-headedness.

[TTTX]

It is more suited to a psychology thread than a political one. Anyway.

I would suggest two options: either try to solve the relationship if it is possible (I do not say it is always the case, far from it), or to leave it behind altogether.

Putting a name on a shit list, Arya Stark-like, means that you are constantly bringing these people with you and in all likelihood they will weigh you down more than anything.

Now it's easier said than done obviously, but it can really feel like a burden you are ditching when you manage to go past these relationships. Sometimes it can't be done on your own, but you have psychologists or psychotherapists whose job it is to help people come to term with the issues in their life. I saw one for about 8 months ending last summer, and it was a tremendous help sorting things I had not even realized needed sorting.

what you consider a shit list compared to mine is different I put people on there to remind myself not to talk, not to look or even be near them if it's within my power and it makes my life so much easier.

[Mazder]

It is more suited to a psychology thread than a political one. Anyway.

I would suggest two options: either try to solve the relationship if it is possible (I do not say it is always the case, far from it), or to leave it behind altogether.

Putting a name on a shit list, Arya Stark-like, means that you are constantly bringing these people with you and in all likelihood they will weigh you down more than anything.

Now it's easier said than done obviously, but it can really feel like a burden you are ditching when you manage to go past these relationships. Sometimes it can't be done on your own, but you have psychologists or psychotherapists whose job it is to help people come to term with the issues in their life. I saw one for about 8 months ending last summer, and it was a tremendous help sorting things I had not even realized needed sorting.

Trouble is in this case the relationship isn't salvageable, nor can the person just leave it behind as the loss is too significant, or they do not feel the loss of the entire site is worth the cost of having to avoid said member through losing the site.

I merely mentioned them to give Vol an additional option if he feels like he need outside advice in a given situation. I would trust him to take the proper decision, as I have never seen him abusing his power here despite very much having the power to do so if he so wished.

I was not looking for impartiality, more level-headedness.

And more levelheadedness would imply that there is at least an implication of there being a lack of levelheadedness, which, in turn, would stand to imply a lack of impartiality, I'd imagine.

[Mobius_118]

I offered a solution that requires him to do about the same amount of work when I got over my hangups with him. Years ago.

It's called grow the fuck up, deal with it like an adult, and move on. He calls me the toxic one. I want him to move past all this anger, he wants me to die in any number of horrific ways, preferably in such a way that I suffer. Real healthy.

There was nothing I said last night initially that could be construed as goading nor insulting, unless you're really that proud of your moonshine that you're willing to fight over who has better booze.

And he took it upon himself to explode over what really was nothing. No hidden messages, no ulterior motive.

[TTTX]

I offered a solution that requires him to do about the same amount of work when I got over my hangups with him. Years ago.

It's called grow the fuck up, deal with it like an adult, and move on. He calls me the toxic one. I want him to move past all this anger, he wants me to die in any number of horrific ways, preferably in such a way that I suffer. Real healthy.

There was nothing I said last night initially that could be construed as goading nor insulting, unless you're really that proud of your moonshine that you're willing to fight over who has better booze.

And he took it upon himself to explode over what really was nothing. No hidden messages, no ulterior motive.

There is the small problem that you know he hates your very being and wants nothing to do with you.

yet you continue to contact or meddle in conversations he is in, knowing full well what will happen and we see the same stuff happen over and over again and again.

If anything it's you who needs to wise up and just accept that and put him on ignore so the rest of us can stop seeing he same stupid bs every time you two talk.

Unless you just want to be like Trump and not accept facts and claim everyone else is wrong and you are right.

[Mobius_118]

Easy.

Get the fuck over it. I don't like him at all, yet I'm still willing to meet halfway on a solution that doesn't require the childish notion that you can ignore the problem.

So fix it. I'm willing to. I don't even remember what I did to so horribly wrong him. Best he forgives and forgets, so we don't have an explosive drama over oak barrels again. Or games that we both happen to enjoy.

[TTTX]

Easy.

Get the fuck over it. I don't like him at all, yet I'm still willing to meet halfway on a solution that doesn't require the childish notion that you can ignore the problem.

So fix it. I'm willing to. I don't even remember what I did to so horribly wrong him. Best he forgives and forgets, so we don't have an explosive drama over oak barrels again. Or games that we both happen to enjoy.

It's only childish if you think it is, you two wouldn't miss a thing (aside from the old argument boiling over again) by ignoring each other.

He won't forgive and forget, You should know Theo sticks to his opinions like a rabid dog after meat and chances of changing those are very small at best and impossible at worst.

He is stubborn and quite frankly I respect him for it.

[Mazder]

It's called grow the fuck up, deal with it like an adult, and move on.

Y'know you could always act like the adult and push the very easily pushed button and have it done and dusted then.

I get it, you don't want this solved on your terms.
But there is literally nothing to gain by sticking to your guns on this.

[Raga]

Double post *ignore*

[Raga]

differing narratives about standoff between American Indian and students

So it was a big clusterfuck between people with wildly different ideological backgrounds who have different memories of what happened, and that spectators sort mostly on grounds of gut instinct and tribal affiliation and not so much on actual evidence?

Sounds pretty much like another day in American politics.

It undermines the singular usefulness of video footage which is incidentally something I've been saying about the footage use to try to convince people that a lot of police officers are murderers. Don't get me wrong, some of that footage is informative, but more is just a grainy world of motion that could mean practically anything.

[Vol]

I've been looking into the depths of what the admin tools for this software (phpbb) allow, and no, there is no built in means of forcing people onto the foe list, or setting up a convoluted system of permissions so each party would have some arbitrary designations that are not allowed to see each other, and so on, that can only be done at the board-level. It's a sort of blind spot in the tools between large and small scale actions, to keep it simple. So to implement such a feature, I would have to actually go into the forum software, learn the language, and implement this very specific tool. Which is not something I want to do for several reasons.

Having a dedicated "Fear and Loathing" topic is my favorite option of those suggested. That way there is no censorship, no punitive action, and the least administrative power is used. Though I should note there is oddly no option to actually move posts from topic to topic that I've found, but it'd be no trouble to manually copy and paste whatever was said into there before deletion. And in case anyone is curious, I've never fully deleted anything said on this board, only "deleted" from your (basic user) view.

@Sine: Thank you for the kind words. I know we have extremely divergent views on politics and probably many subjects, but when I wear my admin hat, I adopt a different set of beliefs. Which has caused some anger at me in the past, but hey, that's the job.

differing narratives about standoff between American Indian and students

So it was a big clusterfuck between people with wildly different ideological backgrounds who have different memories of what happened, and that spectators sort mostly on grounds of gut instinct and tribal affiliation and not so much on actual evidence?

Sounds pretty much like another day in American politics.

It undermines the singular usefulness of video footage which is incidentally something I've been saying about the footage use to try to convince people that a lot of police officers are murderers. Don't get me wrong, some of that footage is informative, but more is just a grainy world of motion that could mean practically anything.

*Takes off admin hat*

Also to note, these were high school kids. Minors. The other parties in this dispute appeared middle aged or later. I do not expect teenagers to be the most morally responsible party for civility and wisdom in a situation like this, even if their white skin implies they should be.

[TheodoricFriede]

...so of the options available to you...


You pick the one that is effectively nothing.

How am i not fucking surprised.

[Mobius_118]

The onus is on you to change. I've only been reacting to your explosions as I would to a near ambush: Turn and burn. You're very easy to burn.

Perhaps if you, I dunno, reacted like a human being who isn't a complete psychopath, you wouldn't be so easy to set off. This isn't fake civility, this is a sincere offer that, if you can contain yourself, we'll be able to communicate like humans instead of whatever this is.

Take it, leave it. I'm not going to ignore you. GAC is worse than you, and I still take his gibbering libertarianism as the nonsense that is.

[Mobius_118]

So. trump has compromised national security for his russian buddies. Who benefited greatly from the lapse in sanctions.

This isn't Democratic obstructionalism, this is a soft coup de tat. Destabilize the nation, bring it to it's knees.

This is purely the republicans fault.

[Raga]

Can I make one additional suggestion to that? If Mobius quotes Theo then that goes straight into the loathing thread because at this point he literally has no reason to quote him except to irritate him.

Anything but that is basically Mobius just gets his way when they have both been acting stupid.

He can still reply to a post by just bringing up the same topic. Just don't quote.

[TheodoricFriede]

Vol isn't going to do a goddamned thing that involves making a decision.

[Raga]

Vol isn't going to do a goddamned thing that involves making a decision.

Don't be an ass.

@Mobius

Don't bother with the snide reply.

[Azint]

This will hopefully be the only time I ever post in this thread, because political issues are not my cup of tea, and this is directly in regards to the elephant in the room. I am going to try and avoid pressing my own personal judgement unto either of you, but holding grudges is a terrible thing, and no good ever comes out of it. I was the fucking world authority when it came to grudges, and I can speak with experience that it brings trouble. Maybe not directly into the involved parties, but there is always some sort of blow-back, and sometimes it affects people not actually involved. You don't have to like each other, you don't have to speak to each other, but letting this rivalry escalate is absolutely the worst thing to do for you, and for us.

I haven't followed this history, and I frankly don't want to, but I know everyone here is tired of it. Everyone. I am sick of it, and you need to consider how this affects the rest of us, even if you don't want to think about the other. And if you say you have thought about how it affects the rest of us, well consider harder. The more you go at it, the more you push the rest of us away, and you have pushed people away. You've already done damage, and I'm not sure how much more the rest of this community can take, but I can't.

I don't want to make a promise out of it, because on paper this is such a trivial thing, but if I see either of you snap at the other again, I will never return to this forum again. If I see either of you do it again, below this very post, or in another thread in plain sight, I don't think I want to be here anymore.

[Raga]

Okay, I think I've said pretty much everything I'm going to say outside of PMs. Here's the issue as I see it:

Ultimatums and emotional blackmail do 0 to actually help solve the underlying problem. They just add to the drama and arbitrarily raise the stacks.

The "loathing" thread is what Vol's already put forward as the thing to try to quarantine it. At least give that time to work or fail.

I made the one suggestion for a tweak to it: that Mob's quotes of Theo also go into the loathing thread. The issue at play is currently something like:

Mob is driving five mile below the speed limit in the passing lane because he sees it as his personal mission to check the egregious speeder that is Theo. Theo has him on ignore but as Mob has said before he's not going to ignore Theo because of the "principle of the thing" and "real life doesn't work like that" or whatever. But it goes beyond that because he isn't just content to refrain from ignoring Theo himself, by quoting him, he's undermining what the ignore system is designed to do so that Mob's presence keep popping up in notifications. He's saying "Not only will I not ignore you, but I refuse to let you ignore me either." He's being that guy in the passing lane making extra sure to let the speeder know he's speeding. But this isn't a morality play. It's not a therapy session. It's a forum.

If the quotations also go in the loathing thread, he doesn't get to keep hanging out in the passing lane pretending "I'm not doing anything wrong." *And* he can still reply to Theo's statements by just replying under them. He's not required to ignore Theo. He just doesn't get a captive audience.

And with that, I'm going to really sincerely try to be done with this.

[Mobius_118]

No need to quarantine anything.

[Raga]

I think it's been resolved via PM and I let Vol know. I'll leave it to him where to go from there if anything else needs to be done.