Sinekein wrote:I'll be honest, I'm not up to date on various internet debates on fictional universes, as I think they are a big waste of time. But I never remember KK's name being mentioned by people who liked the SW univere. They tended to say "Star Wars is awesome", not "what Kennedy is doing with Star Wars is awesome". On the other hand, she is very commonly mentioned as the reason for the universe's flaws by critics.
And she does deserve criticism, if only because of the issues with directors in the last two movies, which explain in no small part why they were disappointing. But that's it. When the DCEU is (often rightfully) lambasted for the quality of its products, it's the DC execs as a whole who are targeted. But for Star Wars, it's Kathleen Kennedy. She isn't even a lead writer or anything, but she is the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong, even when it's very likely not her decision.
True, but they never said "George Lucas is Awesome" or any of the same either. It's usually those who, again, tend to use the fact that Kathleen exists in her role to put forth another "women in entertainment" mouthpiece that generally just panders to the Twitter-mob.
Right now, for myself anyway, it's more a case of blaming her as she's at the top and okaying all the bad that's going wrong. I don't think she's solely to blame but she has a certain level of responsibility towards the product and whenever she's asked apparently everything is golden with no flaws at all.
Sinekein wrote:I was sure you'd criticize the Asian character on the casino planet, but Holdo? I mean, her whole arc is about getting in charge without being prepared for it in a moment of intense crisis, and having to deal with a maverick who starts undermining her authority as soon as she takes command. Poe and Holdo were one of the few things that, for me, were well-written in TLJ, as they both had character arcs that led to personal development and realizing their own mistakes - even though for Holdo it was when she died. They're not meant to be perfect, and their antagonism is perfectly justified from both sides.
She is lauded as a great character, not as a "strong female" character. The "political" part is not her being a strong female character, it's Poe going alpha when she takes command and sabotaging her own strategy because she does not think he can be rusted - and his subsequent actions show that, yeah, he kinda can't? The one feminist thing there might be about Holdo is that she has to deal with men who have trouble being outranked by women, but aside from that, she is a classic assistant-like character getting in charge without being fully prepared for it, and having to do the best despite her flaws. It's nothing new, but in that case it was pulled quite well - even though it was one of the far too numerous twists that killed the pacing for me.
Rose's whole arc was just weak. To criticize it would imply there is some good parts to it, which, I am sorry to say, there isn't.
Her actress did great with the material she was handed, but sadly she was given a soft turd.
If Holdo's arc was to show someone trying to get in charge then she'd need to try and show some attempt at reassuring her subordinates. I mean, Leia does this, even when demoting Poe she points out the few good things he does, she even explains the fuck-ups he does. Holdo just goes "I'm in charge, that's why".
She's apparently the second in command, or at the very least poised to be another leader of another cell or something, she should already have her crisis training down pat a bit.
The whole time Poe is going "do we have a plan? Tell me we have a plan. If we don't have a plan let me help in the plan making." I mean he's not exactly asking the world of her, he's just asking for what the plan is and he's only getting "you don't need to know" whilst being decently high in the chain of command. He's literally doing his job as given everything she isn't being an effective leader.
The sole reason the mutiny is even held is because she gives nothing out. Even a commander demanding respect gives out a little to make the subordinate feel involved, even if it's to keep them off their back with busy-work. Holdo does none of this and just keeps up the same line of doing what she says, even when it's clear to everyone she's not really doing anything but stalling for time.
Plus Holdo's plan is just bad anyway.
Sinekein wrote:Which is fine.
But the posts that kickstarted that conversation basically mentioned that her renewing her deal with Lucasfilms was apocalyptic news. Hence my original answer.
I'd only call it apocalyptic because of the bad direction/management and stuff.
The "SJW"ness I more feel is just bad cringey writing and too much of an attempt to put modern ideal to the forefront instead of them being supporting/flavour adding structures in the writing.
Sinekein wrote:That's more of a topic for the Politics thread, but power abuse from the richest is very much an issue today. And it's basically true everywhere. The far right in particular is often made of upper-class assholes (Rees-Mogg?) who pander to the lower-class by saying they will fight "the elite", while they keep their own friends wealthy and untouchable and abuse lower classes. That's pretty similar to that casino planet. You have guys like that in every country, basically. Either in charge, or near whoever is in charge.
True, but they're never really the "grand chargers" that ruin everything. They have a hand in it, sure, but they're never the sole cause. We assume there will be rich assholes forever in every corner of time, but we don't necessarily imagine dictatorships being present in every time period. We hope to eradicate it as it's a clearer evil to uproot.
That's why I dislike the casino planet as TBH we don't actually see them doing much other than a little bit of implied animal cruelty and an economic difference on the planet. That's honestly a given.
We can't really tell if these are just rich assholes or if this was Space Vegas.
I mean in the Expanded Universe there is a big old bright red Star Destroyer owned by Booster Terrik, a smuggler. It is the most hopping casino ship in the Galaxy and I am sure some of the people in there have sold to both the Empire and the Rebellion, is this outrightly evil?
Given by TLJ's range apparently it is.
Sinekein wrote:There indeed was self-deprecation here (which in my opinion is one of the best kinds of humor, see Obama), but Disney is hardly the only studio to have ever used damsel in distress archetypes. Disney did made female characters leads before letting them actually be the drivers of their own stories (The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast), but in that regard they were more advanced than those who still treated women as a long pair of legs for viewers to look at and for the heroes to have as a final prize.
The first Transformers movie aired 15 years after the Little Mermaid, for example.
True, but note I said popularized it.
They're not the sole ones responsible but you can not deny they're one of the biggest contributors. They're also one of the biggest contributors to the whole body issues thing for both men and women for decades.
