Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Mobius_118]

Ah, and gaslighting! How original.

It's more like you, GAC, and Joblom are committed to the cause of raw stupidity. It's sad to see, but entertaining to watch all three of you quickly and painfully regress into what you are right now.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh look, another sycophant.

Not even a single effort to refute any of that. To argue against it. weak Mobius. You're weak.

[Mobius_118]

Not even a single effort to refute any of that. To argue against it. weak Mobius. You're weak.

You do that constantly. I've pulled out Constitutional Amendments to shut you up and you blow right past it. You're the weak one, you fucking sycophant. Weak minded, weak willed, and just plain, good old-fashioned stupid.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Whatever you say Mobius. I have to give Augustei credit. He legit tries to engage with you like you're anything other than a religious zealot.

[Mobius_118]

He pointed things out that were already patently false, ie: fake news. He's as bad as you, just less spittle laced.

And you did it again, glossing over Amendments and Federal Law because it inconveniences you. And I do so love it when you do that and imply I'm a religious zealot because my conclusions are based on law rather than feelings. It really shows how much you don't care about the law, even though you are bound by it.

[Augustei]

He pointed things out that were already patently false, ie: fake news. He's as bad as you, just less spittle laced.

And you did it again, glossing over Amendments and Federal Law because it inconveniences you. And I do so love it when you do that and imply I'm a religious zealot because my conclusions are based on law rather than feelings. It really shows how much you don't care about the law, even though you are bound by it.

Peer reviewed sources are patently false but your two professors having a casual chat with you are cold hard facts? See this is how I know you're just partisan af, consuming far too much fake news as you put it. Glossing over academic sources because it inconveniences you, because those conclusions are based on socioeconomics rather than feelings. It really shows how much you don't care about socioeconomics, even though you are bound by it

[Mobius_118]

You say Socialism brought Venezuela down, the rest of the world says corruption brought it down. What's hilarious is that Venezuela is always trotted out as a "SEE?! SEE?! SOCIALISM NO WORK!". Then come the Nordic Socialist examples that get glossed over.

And if you'd link them again, that'd be great. I've countered plenty with peer reviewed and expert opinions that far outstrip any of you three, but we'll play this game.

That Nordic Socialist thing you guys hate so goddamn much works well in Minnesota, so I have a living, breathing history with it.

[Augustei]

I never actually claimed it was socialism that ruined Venezuela, I simply claimed that it wasn't capitalism
capitalism =/= corruption
and additionally capitalism =/= corporatism, it seems only socialists fail to grasp the difference on that one though
Also the Nordic countries are not socialist.
Like I keep saying, you really need to learn the difference between socialism and social democracy.

[Mobius_118]

Say the same to GAC. He gets those two fucked up all the time. Yet he also ignores federal and state law, so...

[Mobius_118]

So Chavez created a working form of "Socialism", Maduro takes over, fucks it up, and ya'll seem think it's a pure Socialism fault/inevitability. Money and power does shitty things, especially when oil is involved.

So no, I do not agree with you that socialism caused the downfall of Venezuela. Venezuela gets brought up a lot as a distraction from the US's current problem, which is a growing oligarchy along with authoritarian wannabes in the White House. You boys try to play fuck-fuck games, it's going to end poorly.

[TTTX]

So Chavez created a working form of "Socialism", Maduro takes over, fucks it up, and ya'll seem think it's a pure Socialism fault/inevitability. Money and power does shitty things, especially when oil is involved.

So no, I do not agree with you that socialism caused the downfall of Venezuela. Venezuela gets brought up a lot as a distraction from the US's current problem, which is a growing oligarchy along with authoritarian wannabes in the White House. You boys try to play fuck-fuck games, it's going to end poorly.

Venezuela was doomed to fail, there was going to come a bad leader eventually and fuck it up.

[Mobius_118]

That's like saying every Nordic model nation is doomed to fail as well.

Which is what we're supposed to be striving for. Minnesota practices that model and does well. Has been since 1858. I've been fucking up my terms, and have adjusted as such, in terms of socialism. For that I apologize.

GAC likes to trot out Venezuela whenever he wants to distract from trump from violating the law. With the law I have not fucked up. So the big three here love to distract and deflect.

[TTTX]

That's like saying every Nordic model nation is doomed to fail as well.

We aren't socialist, we have socialist elements like free health care and such.

our companies aren't tied to the government.

[Mobius_118]

Notice how I said Nordic Model, not socialist.

Something with socialist elements, but not entirely socialist.

There are people that associate any socialist aspect as bad, even though they benefit from it.

[TTTX]

Notice how I said Nordic Model, not socialist.

Something with socialist elements, but not entirely socialist.

There are people that associate any socialist aspect as bad, even though they benefit from it.

yes, but it's not the Venezuela model so you can't compared the Nordic and well Venezuela, which is what you implied.

yes, but you also need to accept to pay a high tax for it which seems to be something the American citizen doesn't want to do which is obvious since you more or less but your kids into big debt just to finish education.

[Mazder]

Notice how I said Nordic Model, not socialist.

Something with socialist elements, but not entirely socialist.

There are people that associate any socialist aspect as bad, even though they benefit from it.

You say Socialism brought Venezuela down, the rest of the world says corruption brought it down. What's hilarious is that Venezuela is always trotted out as a "SEE?! SEE?! SOCIALISM NO WORK!". Then come the Nordic Socialist examples that get glossed over.

And if you'd link them again, that'd be great. I've countered plenty with peer reviewed and expert opinions that far outstrip any of you three, but we'll play this game.

That Nordic Socialist thing you guys hate so goddamn much works well in Minnesota, so I have a living, breathing history with it.

I mean, at best you implied it, at worst you did outright say it, even if you're words are shorthand for a different type the words literally used are "Nordic Socialist".
So maybe, to not have your intent misinterpreted, say the exact thing you mean and ditch the shorthand.

And I've not edited this quote other than to put the relevant point in bold, just FYI.

[Mobius_118]

That was before, this is after I read through Augustei's Princeton paper he linked, slept on it, and decided that Venezuela is a fucking distraction from what's going on in the Senate right now.

And we in MN have a higher tax rate already, focusing on education,healthcare, and infrastructure. We have strong labor unions and a bunch of other Nordic Model style implementations.

Some socialist aspects. It works. And let's face it, most Americans have a hard time grasping the concept because we've been told since the 50's that any socialist ideas are bad, even though we benefit from it. Not once have I ever said "Let's go full socialist". I have admitted my ignorance on the subject and sought education on it.

Pure free market without government regulation is how we allow Nestle to dump arsenic into the water supply. It's how we allow companies to drill in wetlands and poison the environment. THAT is what GAC wants. Can you see why someone would be against that?

[TTTX]

Some socialist aspects. It works. And let's face it, most Americans have a hard time grasping the concept because we've been told since the 50's that any socialist ideas are bad, even though we benefit from it. Not once have I ever said "Let's go full socialist". I have admitted my ignorance on the subject and sought education on it.

Pure free market without government regulation is how we allow Nestle to dump arsenic into the water supply. It's how we allow companies to drill in wetlands and poison the environment. THAT is what GAC wants. Can you see why someone would be against that?

it works if you do it right and not sure if the USA will do it right because their different mentality, culture and ignorance of how such socialist systems work.

Pretty sure there are government regulation in the USA or else you guy would have gone back to the time when Rockefeller lived and the companies actually ran the country to the point the bought the president into power.

[Mobius_118]

That's exactly what happened in 2016. Since then, the EPA has been gutted and corporate powers have basically been installing their lackeys into positions of government power. It's always the GOP side that allows it, and it's been killing us.

[TTTX]

That's exactly what happened in 2016. Since then, the EPA has been gutted and corporate powers have basically been installing their lackeys into positions of government power. It's always the GOP side that allows it, and it's been killing us.

those positions aren't permanent and if the Democrats actually run the political campaign well and tell people what they want to hear I doubt they are going to sit for long.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

"A distraction from what's happening in the senate"

Why the fuck would I want to do that? What's happening in the Senate is hilarious. That moron Schiff kept talking about Muh Russia and that impeachment is going to be torn to shreds as the partisan joke that it was. The Democrats made that bed and now they're gonna get fucked in it.

[Joblom]

I wonder why Nordic countries are so nice... There must be something that sets them apart from places like Venezuela. I wonder if "Nordic style socialism" would work in the USA? I think not.

[Alienmorph]

Rome, 2020.

Yeah.

Fuck my country.

[Joblom]

They don't allow that kind of thing here. It was outlawed to counter-act accusations that Jews hold a disproportionate amount of power in our society.

[Vol]

In the USA, every now and then we get a swastika panic, wherein graffiti of a (usually malformed) swastika is found on a synagogue or home of a Jew. Tends to be self-inflicted, or some idiot being edgy, as a genuine occurrence of antisemitism would make our national media hard. The idea that there are secret Nazis among us, ready and waiting for Kristallnacht part 2, is appealing to a certain sort. Our Nazis are toothless as a group, mind you. Filled to the brim with undercover spooks, so they don't do shit.

Maybe yours are different! Last I heard, Italy backslid on the far-right revival, and the guy who was leading it is going to be prosecuted for not letting African migrants into your country fast enough or something.

The Democrat's days of opening arguments for the impeachment trial is over, GOP is up next. Public opinion seems to be utterly affected by all this, so it seems like a big ole' waste of time, since the point was never to actually get rid of Trump, so much as tarnish him in the public eye. But, as is usually the case, they don't care, and the partisans aren't swayed. Really fucks over the Senators running for the DNC nomination tho, they have to waste their time with a foregone conclusion while Biden gets free reign in Iowa, right before the primary.

[TTTX]

The Democrat's days of opening arguments for the impeachment trial is over, GOP is up next. Public opinion seems to be utterly affected by all this, so it seems like a big ole' waste of time, since the point was never to actually get rid of Trump, so much as tarnish him in the public eye. But, as is usually the case, they don't care, and the partisans aren't swayed. Really fucks over the Senators running for the DNC nomination tho, they have to waste their time with a foregone conclusion while Biden gets free reign in Iowa, right before the primary.

well they have tried to make him look like the devil from day 1, it's no surprise no one cares anymore.

[TheodoricFriede]

They don't allow that kind of thing here. It was outlawed to counter-act accusations that Jews hold a disproportionate amount of power in our society.

Real fucking subtle, jackass.

[Alienmorph]

Maybe yours are different! Last I heard, Italy backslid on the far-right revival, and the guy who was leading it is going to be prosecuted for not letting African migrants into your country fast enough or something.

Yeah, it's the second time he risks that, but there's enough people on his side in the government that he's granted immunity every time something like that happens. And usually here phanatics and neo-fascists groups are also a small moronic minority, but the current far-left politicians have been enabling and encouraging them for years now, and they've grown in numbers and influence much more than I'm comfortable with.

Tomorrow we vote in my and another region to choose the local government, and I fear that if the League wins here too (we've been the most left-leaning region of the country since the end of WWII... also the one where things are less fucked up, funny thing) they'll pretty much control all the country and likely be in power one way or another in a matter of months.

It's less than a thrilling perspective, but on the other hand, maybe letting Salvini govern for a couple years might be the thing that helps us get rid of him. The bastard makes Trump look competent, all he does is lying, taking money he doesn't deserve and rally the crowds with nice-sounding slogans. He literally has not a fucking clue how to run a country.

[Sinekein]

They don't allow that kind of thing here. It was outlawed to counter-act accusations that Jews hold a disproportionate amount of power in our society.

That ability to keep digging from the bottom of the hole is starting to look real impressive. Earth's mantle shouldn't be far by now.

It's less than a thrilling perspective, but on the other hand, maybe letting Salvini govern for a couple years might be the thing that helps us get rid of him. The bastard makes Trump look competent, all he does is lying, taking money he doesn't deserve and rally the crowds with nice-sounding slogans. He literally has not a fucking clue how to run a country.

Having an outside perspective on both, I think Salvini is a hundred times smarter than Trump, and also probably a good deal more racist.

I despise Trump, and I think that he is a fundamentally racist individual, but I do think that he uses the rhetoric mostly because it serves him. I am not sure he believes in anything aside from his own wealth, he will just support whatever cause is more likely to getting him elected. Basically, I don't think he actually cares about xenophobia as an ideology, he simply uses it.

Salvini however looks like he took Mussolini's handbook and is trying to check all of its boxes, and he sounds like someone who actually wants to make the world more hateful. Like Bolsonaro (although he sounds smarter - for starters, I have not heard as much about embezzlement or corruption scandals among League members as I have about Bolsonaro's allies or Trump's inner circle).

However, Salvini is "only" leading Italy, so there are numerous checks to his ambitions, chiefly among them the fact that he is part of the European Union and that even if he will never admit it, there are many thing coming from the EU that are holding Italy together. It is telling that despite being way more of a right-wing nut than Boris Johnson (another Trump-like individual who uses racism as a political tool without really caring about being an advocate), I have never seen him setting up plans to leave. It's actually the same with Le Pen in France (and I see her as less of an ideologue than Salvini - the aunt, because the niece is equally as dangerous).

[Alienmorph]

Salvini is a much better salesman than even Trump, yes. He invested a ton of (our) money in online campaigns, has appealed to every religious, superstitious and "nostalgic" person in the country, and he never shuts up, so that there's always new shit for the casual person to see, and not much time to go back and spot all the lies and contradictions.

As an actual governer or political leader tho, he falls completely apart, he just doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. That last accusation he almost got to court because of? It was because he violated a security decree... he himself wrote to cover his own ass.

I don't doubt he's gonna do some major damage to the country, but if he wins the elections and his party gets to govern on its own, without allies like the 5 Stars to deflect blame on, then maybe people will finally see him for the conman that he is, and then we can finally move the fuck on.

Oh and also the League is pretty much the most corrupted party in Italy right now, which is no small feat. 3 of the regions they govern had their local cabinet completely shut down due to several people being investigated for taking money. At least 3 members of the party have been find trying to smuggle drugs, they've been governing the region Venice is for most of a decade in and turned the city and the area into a giant, polluted shitshow. Oh, and Salvini himself has had a biography written and published by an holocaust denier who think Mussolini is the best leader this nation ever had.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I still think it's funny that people are constantly tarring Trump with the label racist. The guy that's actively trying to get the GoP to do more outreach to the Black and Latin communities. The guy who is presiding over the lowest unemployment rate in the former that we've ever seen. The guy who just so happens to have jumped from 8% approval in that first community to somewhere around 30% in 3 years.

Then there's his support of historical black colleges from decades before he got involved in politics, that he used to get praise for this kind of thing. people only decided to add the racist label once he got political. Because Racism is one of the Media's favorite ways to label someone they don't like who has gotten some kind of public prominence.

If *ANY* establishment friendly president was presiding over the kind of economy we have right now the Media would be falling over itself to sing his praises.

[Mobius_118]

Well trump is a racist, you twit. There's a whole internet out there full of trumps racism.

And the trial in the Senate requires Witnesses and documents, something the GOP and trump has admitted to blocking on live TV. That's obstruction of justice. Clearly you don't give two fucks about the law when it applies to your boy, but oh you so embrace it when President Obama wore a tan suit or something just as innocuous.

Real talk, do you identify as a Sovereign Citizen? That would explain so much about how insipid you are.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

A tan suit? I'm not the one on the side of the people who lost their shit when Trump had TWO SCOOPS of Ice cream Mobius.

Obama was weak and I'm glad to see the last of him. This "Impeachment" is illegitimate as fuck and anyone looking it honestly knows that. Not a SINGLE Republican crossed the isle to vote for it in the House and the Democrats had a small number of their own break ranks to vote against it. What does that tell an objective observer?

Partisan as fuck "We've been working on getting him impeached since 2017" Crazy partisan fuckwits who still fucking STILL would rather peddle disproved horse shit like "Muh RUSSIA!" than accept that they lost. Than accept that this intersectional horse shit is losing them votes.

But keep going Mobius. Never interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake after all.

[Mobius_118]

Well no, they violated their oath of office to protect their paychecks. They're putting money over the law.

Blocking witnesses and blocking evidence is not what innocent people do, GAC. That's exactly what the GOP is doing. Cry all you want about it, you know I'm right. That's why you keep de-legitimatizing the process in a poorly thought out attempt to garner support.

Hell, ignoring subpoena's is a federal misdemeanor, and the trump team has done this willfully under direction from trump himself.

Withholding evidence is known as Spoliation of Evidence, something trump has admitted to on live TV.

Not cooperating with Congress ie: Contempt of Congress is another law violated by the GOP and trump. Admitted to on live TV.

Withholding aid to Ukraine violated the ICA, or Impoundment Control Act, which is a violation of Federal law.

I should go on, just so everyone can see you blow past it because you're a child who thinks the president is above the law as long as he's your dictator.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Uh huh. Enjoy your world view Mobius. I'm sure you'll get your rousing Vindication when Kek Joe Biden storms to victory.

I seem to remember your cancerous Schiff controlling the process in the most partisan fashion possible when it was in the House. You're full of shit and nobody gives a shit about this impeachment outside your delusional echo chamber. It's going to die in the Senate and you're going to reeeee all the way to another loss in November. You'll be repeating your narrative till you're in your grave. You will never once doubt that you are the moral one. That your side is right and just. That everything you believe is sound and correct.

You are a zealot and I'm going to enjoy this year even more than the last three.

[Mobius_118]

Enjoy...my laws...Wow.

You really are a dumb motherfucker.You're tossing aside and ignoring Federal laws and the Constitution, and you call me a zealot. You're ignoring reality, law, all the things that keep people like you in check, just because you don't like it.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCTry3XVrsc

In other news. 2020 really does feel like an even more entertaining 2016.

[Mobius_118]

I post actual law, you post right wing shitposts. Get the fuck out of here with your stupidity.

[Sinekein]

I still think it's funny that people are constantly tarring Trump with the label racist. The guy that's actively trying to get the GoP to do more outreach to the Black and Latin communities. The guy who is presiding over the lowest unemployment rate in the former that we've ever seen. The guy who just so happens to have jumped from 8% approval in that first community to somewhere around 30% in 3 years

I don't want to bother with the various anecdotes re:Trump's racism - might not be outright uses of the n-word but they are abundant and documented enough to leave little doubt of his actual thoughts - but that "8% to 30%" story does not exist, as it compares two different things. He got 8% of the black vote in 2016, his approval rating was not 8%. And right now, his approval rating in this community is in the thirties, which does not mean that it will translate into 30% of the vote.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I post actual law, you post right wing shitposts. Get the fuck out of here with your stupidity.

You honestly believe that Tim pool is a right wing shitposter don't you? That's hilarious.

[Mobius_118]

You thought that Sargon character was legit too.

And you don't even try to debate the law. You're weak, GAC. Fucking useless.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

You thought that Sargon character was legit too.

And you don't even try to debate the law. You're weak, GAC. Fucking useless.

More legitimate than people like Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann at least.

Sargon's main failings is that he's cringey and has an inflated view of his own importance. His heart is in the right place at least. Namely opposing Intersectionality.

[Mobius_118]

You're not helping yourself here. You're telling people that some quackfuck who thinks the Democrats exonerated trump accidentally with cherry picked video clips is more legit than people who report the news using the laws and sources it so people can check it for themselves.

Again, you ignore the Federal laws that trump violated because you don't like the truth. You don't have a counter so you resort to bullshit. I don't know what kind of mental handicap you have that you think gives you that privilege, but it's endemic to the trump supporter.

Get. Treatment. You're not well.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Uh huh. Remember that old adage Mobius? Innocent until proven guilty. You don't seem to apply that to your political opponents. Makes sense giving your strong Socialistic tendencies.

That Muh Russia probe went on for years and yet despite having years and barrels of money to investigate the man himself is still doing fine. The Democrats have been salivating to try and impeach since the moment the election was over. It's an interesting kind of collective psychosis. Orange man bad syndrome.

You've made him a one dimensional super villain that has to be at the same time the most stupid motherfucker ever to live *AND* a super villain who manages to be responsible for any evil you care to name. You are a typical example of your kind. You project and you sink deeper and deeper into your echo chamber. Nobody likes you Mobius. You're an arrogant self righteous prick that cannot change your mind and won't change the subject.

Enjoy November. I know I will.

[Mobius_118]

Neither do you, shithead. And "innocent until proven guilty" applies to state actions that result in life, liberty, or property for sure. In the political arena it's not applicable. And trump has admitted to crimes already, which nulls his claim that he's innocent.

It also nulls every thing you say in his defense, because his crimes are immediately apparent, readily confessed to, and cumulatively have earned him 10 years in prison. And that's just the ones that he's confessed to already. 70% of the nation wants witnesses and documents. The public wants to see and hear all the evidence. Every GOP member of the Senate that continues to try and cover up everything is ignoring the will of their constituents.

And you have the gall to say the laws don't matter. The impeachment process was expressly created to remove presidents like trump, to prevent another monarchy.

Mueller didn't clear trump of anything. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

And again you're the one projecting. I count you, Theo, Joblom, and Augustei as the people that don't like me, and I couldn't care less. Truly. Nothing that happens here impacts my daily life. Your words are humorously worthless, because you are just another entitled fuck protected by the internet. In reality you really are just a sad little man living in your moms basement. You're not rich, you're not wealthy. Everything you stand for has been debunked, defrocked, and utterly pointless. Go reevaluate your fucking life, or go ahead and keep being a fucking shitbag. That's all you'll ever be.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

See people like Sinekin I disagree with pretty vehemently. People like Mazder or Alienmorph I've got pretty serious disagreements on world view.

You though? You're just a bad person using an ideology to make you feel like you're something better than you are. You hate people on the other side of the isle. You hate people who go against your world view. You're not a good person Mobius. And all the outrage and signaled virtue in the world won't change that.

Me? I keep to myself, live my own life unless something I care about calls me to do something. I live my life on my own terms. You're a nasty ugly person and I've come to realize that Theo was right. There's no point in engaging with you. Not even for entertainment. You don't deserve my time. Or any the time of any of the people here really. I think it's time to stop poking the ass with a stick. All it ever does is bray and spit vitriol everywhere.

[Mobius_118]

I bring out the law, and suddenly I'm the bad guy with bad views.

Do you read what you type or are you that stupid to think what you say is better than 200+ years of Constitutional law?

Your views are poison. Your preferred way of life is poison. It's a cancer, and it needs to be cut out of the US. You are simply a symptom of the rot of Libertarianism, and I enjoy it every time you decide to attack me personally than actually try to counter US Federal law. It shows your ignorance.

[Alienmorph]

First projections are out. Either we won by a small margin, or by a large margin. But either way at least my corner of Italy is still not in the hands of the far-right. Eat a dick, Salvini.

[Sinekein]

Congrats! Good news are hard to come by these days when it comes to politics - or at least, not outright terrible ones.

[Alienmorph]

Congrats! Good news are hard to come by these days when it comes to politics - or at least, not outright terrible ones.

Thanks. Final data points out he lost outright, there's pretty much a 10% of difference between the League candidate and ours. Plus in terms of total numbers he made slightly less than last time, so no matter how they spin it, it's an undeniable defeat for them.

Also the League former allies from the 5 Star Movement completely cratered down in votes too. The only reason they didn't arrive last was because a small party of anti-vaxxers candidated too, and stole away the "honor" of being the least voted lol