Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Mobius_118]

On the plus side, I'm glad corona is dead and gone. That went on way too long.

Yeah no. That will persist and now be exacerbated because one cop with a history of violence against people of color murdered someone.

And that attitude, right there, is why people are going to continue to die from a lung eating disease.

[Vol]

The joke is that the press has gone pretty well silent on it, because violence sells more than fear, after months of wall-to-wall coverage.

[TheodoricFriede]

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1266931911445880833

Not quite a cop, but he's white, so close enough. Tried to defend his store with a sword, people are saying. A gun might've saved his life/brain damage.

Got people rioting in fucking Fargo now. Can't possibly be solely out of state agitators at this point. Probably a mix of lockdown madness and avarice.

On the plus side, I'm glad corona is dead and gone. That went on way too long.

The inevitable conclusion to all of this.

It was never about police brutality. It was an excuse to cause as much chaos and anarchy as possible.

I think I really may get a concealed carry permit soon. I'm not scared of black people, or brown people, or even jew haters.
Im scared of college age white people.

[Vol]

There were proper, peaceful protests earlier in the days. The agitators and such are more of a nighttime crowd.

The kicker is _nobody defended the cop_. Whole country, of one mind on this one. Guy was charged with murder, locked up, even Trump is calling for imprisonment. Everyone's on board for some reforms. There was nothing _to_ protest.

Now we have riots in all the cities. Fucking Fargo has rioting.

The lily white, pearl-clutching people I follow online for their creative content giving their uniformly media-approved opinions is like the sand on the shit sandwich.

Hey, if there was ever a group to be afraid of, it's white people when they get fed up. Did some nasty things, back in the day, I hear.

[Mobius_118]

There were proper protests. Then the white supremacists started flooding in here and started the ancillary fires that had nothing to do with the 3rd Precinct.

I highly doubt the protesters would burn their own fucking homes down. And considering we're catching those boogie boys in the act, it's safe to say that the police are teargassing the wrong people.

And this is most definitely about police brutality. I fucking said that the MPD has a history of oppressing everyone in their district. To say that it's not spits on the graves of every dead person from an overzealous cop who thinks he's Judge Dredd. And now here we are. My home state is the flash point for a civil rights movement.

[Vol]

The market demand for organized, trained white supremacist cells is significantly more than the supply, sadly. No one seems to want to work on fixing that either.

I'm hearing some pretty high numbers for stores and homes being rendered unusable, but we'll know for sure when the sun comes up. Hearing the NG is deployed in MN at least, and using classic divide and conquer. Dallas is getting it real bad.

Well, more people are dead now, some by the police, some by the rioters. To affirm what the entire country was already agreeing was a murder that required punishment and reform.

[Mobius_118]

And to think all of this could've been avoided had the 4 officers been arrested right away and police reform put forward by President Obama actually been followed. As well as previous reform attempts been followed. And systematic racism be wiped out.

White supremacists need to be wiped off the face of the planet. Fuck em. All of this chaos is because of a white supremacist policeman not following actual policies.

[TTTX]

I think I really may get a concealed carry permit soon. I'm not scared of black people, or brown people, or even jew haters.
Im scared of college age white people.

seems like it's college people in general.

[Sinekein]

This is why we can't have nice things. France spent decades establishing a reputation at horrible management of crowds and demonstrations, there even was a year-long protest movement that led to some deaths and many people losing eyes or getting injured through the use of anti-riot equipment by the police.

But no, America always has to do it more and better. So disheartening.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

This is why we can't have nice things. France spent decades establishing a reputation at horrible management of crowds and demonstrations, there even was a year-long protest movement that led to some deaths and many people losing eyes or getting injured through the use of anti-riot equipment by the police.

But no, America always has to do it more and better. So disheartening.

If it makes you feel any better the French still win out at republic turnover rate.

Five republics in a little over 200 years is a lot.

[Sinekein]

It is mostly down to how they are numbered. Any interruption is counted as the end of a Republic, no matter how the next one looks.

The only time there was an actual Constitutional change in a Republic leading to a number change was in 1958 when it went from IVth to Vth.

Before that, the 1st Republic started during the Revolution and ended with the Napoleonian Empire. Then the Monarchy came back, and the IInd Republic was restored in 1848 after king Louis-Philippe was ousted, leading to the election of the first president, one Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte. After a coup four years later he started the second empire, so the IInd Republic ended. The IIIrd Republic was established in 1870 when he got deposed, and ended in 1940 with the German invasion. IVth followed the Liberation.

IInd, IIIrd and IVth were very close when you look at the constitutions, but since they had started giving them numbers, they decided to keep doing so.

Then in 1958 there was an actual significant Constitution change when De Gaulle was elected following the Algerian crisis, and he established the current Vth Republic, which is actually rather close to the US one when it comes to the power structure, especially when it comes to electing a leader, not a party. Some politicians are now asking for a VIth to reduce presidential power and favor "public servant" profiles over "vote-for-me megalomaniacs" ones, but considering the last 60 years have been spent with parties in the majority never having to compromise in order to pass laws, it would require some effort. And of course, a purely proportional system would mean way more room for the extremes, which not everyone is keen on.

Basically, with the same numbering system, Germany would be in its 3rd republic - first Weimar, then West Germany/East Germany, then modern unified Germany.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

It doesn't really much matter if many of the first few were very similar in structure. They were interrupted by periods of that republic going into abeyance \.

The French Republic came to an end several times. Eventually being succeeded by another republic. After a period of Empire, Monarchy, or Occupation.. There is more direct continuity of spirit if not in systems between the Fourth and Fifth though so honestly I personally would not really consider them separate republics.

And yeah the Germans are on their third stab at a Republic. Second technically if you count West Germany uniting into Germany proper as legitimate.

These are the same kinds of historical quibbles you get into when people argue the legitimacy of governments from history.

Some for example don't count the Eastern Roman/Byzantine empire as the Roman Empire even though there was continuity of government because there were major territorial and cultural changes over its lifespan. Some particularly pedantic historians consider the Eastern Roman Empire as the Roman Empire until the Arab conquests. Then as a Greek Imperial successor state. It's all rather muddled.

[Vol]

And to think all of this could've been avoided had the 4 officers been arrested right away and police reform put forward by President Obama actually been followed. As well as previous reform attempts been followed. And systematic racism be wiped out.

White supremacists need to be wiped off the face of the planet. Fuck em. All of this chaos is because of a white supremacist policeman not following actual policies.

Given the race riots he dealt with, I suspect it would have been the same regardless. There is no way to prevent cops from killing people so long as they're charged with maintaining the state's order and are given permission/equipment to take lives. Frequency, however, can be improved.

Do you believe that if any and all people who extol, support, or defend white folk were silenced and gone, that said white folk would not have vengeance taken on them by all these people who hate us?

seems like it's college people in general.

Of the organized agitators, they're the best for it. Young and passionate.

[TTTX]

Of the organized agitators, they're the best for it. Young and passionate.

and let us not forget entitled.

[TheodoricFriede]

I do not think I have ever looked upon the world with as much horror and disgust as I have these past couple days.

[Vol]

and let us not forget entitled.

For a great many of the people so proudly and passionately speaking out right now, they offer little to nothing of their own immense comforts and luxuries, but nagging lectures and browbeating for the rest of us. For not caring enough.

And again, _none of this needed to happen, the country was in unison against the cops on this one_.

I do not think I have ever looked upon the world with as much horror and disgust as I have these past couple days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miaTf1gF4g

I mean, yeah, it'll fizzle out soon enough. But the divide is only getting deeper. Not as bad as the 60s and 70s yet!

[Mobius_118]

Well for years the entitled white folk get all bitchy when people of color protest peacefully. Colin Kaepernick being the most prominent in the most recent years.

This is a result of the voices not being heard. This isn't just national anymore, either. It's gone international. If you're still thinking that the US doesn't have a problem, then you're a part of said problem.

Given the race riots he dealt with, I suspect it would have been the same regardless. There is no way to prevent cops from killing people so long as they're charged with maintaining the state's order and are given permission/equipment to take lives. Frequency, however, can be improved.

You know, I read that and think sure, cops have a duty to protect and serve. Then I remember that selling loose cigs is not a killable offense. Neither is writing a bad check, playing outside, sleeping in your own home, running outside, I could go on.

And that's all George Floyd did. He wrote a bad check, and a cop who has years of violence in his career, killed him. There has to be police reform. The cities that had protests pop up after this one have their own stories about police abuse.

We need a national reform of police use of force. And we need a police reform so that when one cop goes bad, he or she is not protected. That happens way too often.

Do you believe that if any and all people who extol, support, or defend white folk were silenced and gone, that said white folk would not have vengeance taken on them by all these people who hate us?

If you're suggesting that white supremacists have any care about the regular folk who just want to live in peace with their neighbors regardless of skin color or religion, they don't. Those people are expendable to the white supremacists as race traitors.

Every person I've talked to in the protests up here has not harbored any hatred towards white folk. It's the system they want to change. My unit hasn't been activated because we're Federal, and my friends up there know this. It isn't hard to be a decent human being, but when the system is fucked, it'll attract fucked people. The MPD has had this problem for years, and when the peaceful protests get ignored, this is what happens. Good people are pushed past the breaking point, and now we're here.

Better hope Chauvin gets convicted.

I mean, yeah, it'll fizzle out soon enough. But the divide is only getting deeper. Not as bad as the 60s and 70s yet!

No, it won't. Not until there's justice.

And with reporters and journalists getting shot and detained, this is going to get worse.

[TTTX]

Well for years the entitled white folk get all bitchy when people of color protest peacefully. Colin Kaepernick being the most prominent in the most recent years.

This is a result of the voices not being heard. This isn't just national anymore, either. It's gone international. If you're still thinking that the US doesn't have a problem, then you're a part of said problem.

People are nasty to one another, if the shoe was on the other foot, well the Black american's would and some do act like their white counterparts (which include racism).

once skin color or "race" don't matter because people are well people and they are going to do nasty things to one another.

Also fuck your BS international, it's your country that have that major problem figure it out on your own, we Europeans have enough problems with the refugee crisis and all that trouble that causes.

[Mobius_118]

People are nasty to one another, if the shoe was on the other foot, well the Black american's would and some do act like their white counterparts (which include racism).

once skin color or "race" don't matter because people are well people and they are going to do nasty things to one another.

Also fuck your BS international, it's your country that have that major problem figure it out on your own, we Europeans have enough problems with the refugee crisis and all that trouble that causes.

You say that, but you don't live here and experience it. It's disproportionate here. Anyone who isn't a straight white person is pretty much a 2nd class citizen.

And if you have a problem with solidarity from other nations, I dunno what to tell you other than that this it's nice to see the world coming together to support us as such. A world united against a problem that is still very much so a thing? That's crazy.

[TTTX]

You say that, but you don't live here and experience it. It's disproportionate here. Anyone who isn't a straight white person is pretty much a 2nd class citizen.

And if you have a problem with solidarity from other nations, I dunno what to tell you other than that this it's nice to see the world coming together to support us as such. A world united against a problem that is still very much so a thing? That's crazy.

so?
Being straight and white isn't the problem or the cause of it, it comes from old fashion religion believes and of course well a good portion of the crime in the US is committed by people of colour (which is causeed by other social problem, like good portion of colored people live in poor neighborhoods) and that creates a bad reputation to say the least.

You Americans have had that racist problem for well over a century, your internal problem isn't our problem, we are already dealing with the refuge crisis you created in for us the first place, you can fucking deal with it on your own.

[Mobius_118]

The people protesting outside of the US disagree. Let them stand with the people, because you have to admit the last 3 years have made the world a less safe place.

I knew it would get bad, been saying it for years. Don't be salty because it went international. Be salty that the systemic racism in our system has spurred the world to the point of solidarity with the US.

Although if that makes you salty your priorities are a bit skewed. Perhaps you need to do some introspective searching as well. No one here asked for our allies to protest with us.

[Sinekein]

I know that American exceptionalism is a thing, and I have my fair share of grievances against US influence in the world in the last decades, but the issues we are dealing with in the EU right now are not solely theirs. It's not like racism is a US creation, even though they reached a high level of mastery over the past centuries (but so did South Africa).

And hearing "refugee crisis" this, "refugee crisis" that...migrant waves have existed and been dealt with since forever by the Southern nations (Spain, Greece, Italy, France...) in their vast majority - Germany and Sweden are the only other names that actually participated to a degree. I find it a bit hard to swallow to see people from the Northern ones suddenly realize it's a thing because they are eventually forced to take a (minimal) share of the burden, and then fly into a panic and resort to nativist policies. The point of the EU is both to share benefits and issues, not to cash in on the advantages related to being part of a powerful economic union only to disappear and/or whine when hardships occur.

[TTTX]

The people protesting outside of the US disagree. Let them stand with the people, because you have to admit the last 3 years have made the world a less safe place.

I knew it would get bad, been saying it for years. Don't be salty because it went international. Be salty that the systemic racism in our system has spurred the world to the point of solidarity with the US.

Although if that makes you salty your priorities are a bit skewed. Perhaps you need to do some introspective searching as well. No one here asked for our allies to protest with us.

it's been less of a safe place since 9/11, not these last 3 years, not everything is Trumps fault, racism existed long before Trump was born and what we have seen now is nothing compared to the past.

yeah right, racism isn't a white race thing, the rest of the world have it too and they are far worse then us in the west.

Fuck you, we have thousands and thousands of so called refuges coming over our border ever since your conflicts with the middle east and let me tell you a portion of them are really racist and demand everything hand to them on a silver platter, but you have a some bad cops that act like assholes, but guess what that's what happens in every system, there will always be scumbags that's the world we live.

[Mobius_118]

Shit man, the rich white folk get everything on a silver platter while everyone else has to scrape by. That's not just a racism problem, but a class one as well.

You don't support us, that's fine. We didn't ask anyone to support the US during this time. You all did that on your own.

I can blame trump and those like trump for making it this way. The last 3 years has been an exponential shit show, but it's compounded by "Conservative values" ever since Reagan. Every day the collective of America wakes up and wonders what else him and his posse of morons fucked up this time.

A "few" bad cops? Look at the protest map, man. Every city on there has a problem with the departments in each respective city. There has to be reform change and justice for those abused and slain, otherwise this is going to continue.

Your shitty attitude about it all shows part of the problem. Not just here but in every nation. The sooner it's reformed, the better. We won't see it from trump and company, though. That dumbfuck wants us to violate Posse Comitatus and start occupying our own nation to quell protests.

And I have to tell you, the immigrants that show up here are just grateful to not have to worry about being murdered in their sleep and the opportunity to live. Too bad we're throwing them in cages still, especially with a fucking pandemic going on.

[Sinekein]

Fuck you, we have thousands and thousands of so called refuges coming over our border ever since your conflicts with the middle east and let me tell you a portion of them are really racist and demand everything hand to them on a silver platter, but you have a some bad cops that act like assholes, but guess what that's what happens in every system, there will always be scumbags that's the world we live.

Dumb nihilism aside, you live in Denmark ffs, don't act like you suffer every day from issues brought by migrants.

That's like having someone go on a racist rant against Mexicans swarming their home while living in Montana.

I can blame trump and those like trump for making it this way. The last 3 years has been an exponential shit show, but it's compounded by "Conservative values" ever since Reagan.

US Liberals in general should at least realize that by making a nice, big package of "conservative values" they are actively encouraging the most extreme of the bunch. Even if they are not in charge, they should realize that they also are moving the Overton window and that is pushes some moderate conservatives - yes, they exist - in the arms of the hateful racists.

There can be no dialogue when you call someone a "conservative" as a redux for both people who had a christian upbringing and as such are not always comfortable with same-sex relationships, the notion of transidentity or gender equality, and for the white incels who are low-key asking for a racist revolution. Because the more you assimilate the former to the latter, the more likely it becomes that he'll just say "fuck it, they hate me for what I am, might as well stop trying to play nice".

I know that I have a tendency to be guilty of it, because it is so much easier to make a clear "us/them" divide. Yet it is far less of a problem here in Europe than it is in the US, where it looks like both sides have a race towards radicality that progressively pushes everyone to the edges.

[Mobius_118]

The point behind putting conservative values in quotation marks is that I was emphasizing the more extreme values like "fuck you I got mine". Not two weeks ago there were the few protests against the pandemic response, which included conservative sociopaths storming governors mansions. All so they can go back to the way things were, which they can't. That's the extreme right. A longing wish to go back to the 50's. That sentiment permeates the conservative world, even the moderates. The very few that I know that are not like that are few and far between, despite making up the supposed bulk of the conservative mindset. They need to speak up, rather than just standing by silently.

Those extreme right are the same ones going into and subverting the protests currently to start fires in housing developments, looting stores and blaming it on the peaceful protesters, and trying to shoot protesters with whatever's on hand. The racism that's been plaguing the US needs to be quelled. The same racism that trump loves to stoke. I cannot recall a president that has done so much harm in his first term, aside from Bush but he started a "War on Terror" that has not stopped since then, even though he had Intel from the Clinton Administration that 9/11 was going to happen.

The US decided to roll 1918, the race riots of the 60's, and corporate/police corruption all into one year.

[TTTX]

Shit man, the rich white folk get everything on a silver platter while everyone else has to scrape by. That's not just a racism problem, but a class one as well.

You don't support us, that's fine. We didn't ask anyone to support the US during this time. You all did that on your own.

I can blame trump and those like trump for making it this way. The last 3 years has been an exponential shit show, but it's compounded by "Conservative values" ever since Reagan. Every day the collective of America wakes up and wonders what else him and his posse of morons fucked up this time.

A "few" bad cops? Look at the protest map, man. Every city on there has a problem with the departments in each respective city. There has to be reform change and justice for those abused and slain, otherwise this is going to continue.

Your shitty attitude about it all shows part of the problem. Not just here but in every nation. The sooner it's reformed, the better. We won't see it from trump and company, though. That dumbfuck wants us to violate Posse Comitatus and start occupying our own nation to quell protests.

And I have to tell you, the immigrants that show up here are just grateful to not have to worry about being murdered in their sleep and the opportunity to live. Too bad we're throwing them in cages still, especially with a fucking pandemic going on.

yeah and that's not going to change.

I did no such thing, as far as I'm concerned it's the US being the US after all your country is the one who has a lot of school shooting, you clearly have a problem.

You think Trump is bad, you should try and have the EU leadership or some of mine or I'm sure Mazder would gladly switch his with yours for well over a decade.

yeah, doesn't matter what you do there will always be at least a few scumbags in every dempartment, at least until we can get the robots to do it.

well congratulation you found out the world is flawed. Protests? more like Riots and you put those things down and you don't give into them, much like terrorists.

most of them that are in those "cages" don't go through the border legally, they basically jump the border, run to your country and don't have good educations so either they take whatever job they can or well turn to a life of crime because you need a at least basic education at least to work in the US, not the mention your refuges aren't Muslim from the Middle East or Africa were the culture is very different from ours that it gives conflict because they want us to change our culture to theirs and it is tiring to hear those people say that they are going to take over and show us how run a country.

[TTTX]

Dumb nihilism aside, you live in Denmark ffs, don't act like you suffer every day from issues brought by migrants.

That's like having someone go on a racist rant against Mexicans swarming their home while living in Montana.

I don't "suffer" because of them, I have my own issues to deal with, but the rest of the country have run out of room to house and money to support them something is going to burst sooner or later, there is only so much to go around at the end of day.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I love how Mobius thinks the side that is obsessed with the sanctity of property is the one burning shit.

Not you know. The commie thugs that have made a habit of destroying property for years... nope. Them hwite middle class college age lefties didn du nuffin.

Because In Mobius world he and his ilk are righteous. Standing against the eternal night of mega racism. Don't point out that a LOT of these riots are going on in places that have been democrat strongholds for YEARS. Turns out American cities are fucking cancerous. I wonder who is in charge of most of those cities? Gee I fucking wonder. God you're such a blinkered fucking partisan.

Nobody out there rioting gives a shit about that poor guy that that asshole cop murdered. Peaceful protest is fine. Even if you're waving wooooooahaahaha scary guns around. If you don't use them fucking fine. The second you start burning shit you lose any right to call yourself a protestor and deserve to get put down and HARD.

[Mobius_118]

The only terrorists are the ones doing the looting and burning. Guess what, that's not every protester. I'm more concerned about the actual terrorists using this as an opportunity to do harm. The rest are just trying to get treated equally. Pretty sure that's in the Constitution.

In Minnesota we've been catching more out of state punks who came to take advantage of the situation and run a little anarchy.

And, to quote MLK Jr:
…I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

This has been building for decades. This needed to happen. I know better than to discount the message just because there's rioting.

You've made your point. You've said your piece. I don't support your sigh of displeasure at your neighboring nations deciding to show solidarity. We never asked for the support. It was a complete surprise to everyone here. Get over it. Go voice your displeasure in Dam Square.

I love how Mobius thinks the side that is obsessed with the sanctity of property is the one burning shit.

Not you know. The commie thugs that have made a habit of destroying property for years... nope. Them hwite middle class college age lefties didn du nuffin.

Because In Mobius world he and his ilk are righteous. Standing against the eternal night of mega racism. Don't point out that a LOT of these riots are going on in places that have been democrat strongholds for YEARS. Turns out American cities are fucking cancerous. I wonder who is in charge of most of those cities? Gee I fucking wonder. God you're such a blinkered fucking partisan.

Nobody out there rioting gives a shit about that poor guy that that asshole cop murdered. Peaceful protest is fine. Even if you're waving wooooooahaahaha scary guns around. If you don't use them fucking fine. The second you start burning shit you lose any right to call yourself a protestor and deserve to get put down and HARD.

For a libertarian you sure are a waffle on governmental control. You do realize that if the reforms go through that police will be a guardian force instead of a warrior one trying to do my job, right? It means less money spent on regular cops getting military equipment, lowered spending.

Ah but you never miss an opportunity to take a shot at me. It's pathetic of you.

Also, fuck property when lives are being lost. That's what insurance is for, as stated by the businesses affected in the past week. The local ones are standing with the protesters. Way to continue to be a corporate whore.

[Sinekein]

The point behind putting conservative values in quotation marks is that I was emphasizing the more extreme values like "fuck you I got mine". Not two weeks ago there were the few protests against the pandemic response, which included conservative sociopaths storming governors mansions. All so they can go back to the way things were, which they can't. That's the extreme right. A longing wish to go back to the 50's. That sentiment permeates the conservative world, even the moderates. The very few that I know that are not like that are few and far between, despite making up the supposed bulk of the conservative mindset. They need to speak up, rather than just standing by silently.

It permeates because conservatives have had a smaller and smaller influence on the "intellectual world" over time. Not because their ideas have disappeared, but because there has been ostracism going on when people are associated with values considered conservatives. Even if I do not share those values, it is hard to deny it.

Besides, name-calling does not a dialogue start. I mean sure, you can go with "they did it first", but you can spend hours debating who's on first, or you can realize that as long as insults are the only way of communication, no progress will be ever made and the gap will only grow deeper.

I am pretty sure that people would rather be condescendingly explained what is wrong with their conservative views, than be insulted because of their conservative views. In the former case, there is a chance that it will lead to a debate of some sort and that some common ground will be found, in the latter, well it will be Mobius vs GAC episode 254 of which nothing ever comes out.

And obviously, while nothing happens, then moderates will progressively disappear, because humans are social animals and they would rather belong to a large group than to feel like they don't belong to anything significant. The sad thing is that it's true for both sides - Sanders fans talking about moderate Dem candidates are eerily similar to Trumpists going after moderate republicans who dared to disagree with their God. I'm pretty sure that moderate Democrats who like to talk online have not had the best year, since any criticism of Sanders or any call for a small, incremental change of US society was met with an armageddon of contempt or worse.

Those extreme right are the same ones going into and subverting the protests currently to start fires in housing developments, looting stores and blaming it on the peaceful protesters, and trying to shoot protesters with whatever's on hand. The racism that's been plaguing the US needs to be quelled..

I mean, I know it's happening, again, in France it has happened for a while, and policemen in civil clothes trying to make demonstrations go crazy are pretty much a tradition now. But they are not solely responsible for demonstrations going to shit. You have idiots profiting from the occasion to make a quick buck by looting an electronics store or just vent out their anger and frustration. You have people who _want_ to fight the police - anarchists in general are often rather keen on just causing mayhem, and give no shits about it hurting the cause that started the protests. It's not black and white.

Which as Vol pointed out is a bit sad because it was really black and white to begin with in the case of George Floyd's death. I really haven't heard anyone important or literate praising the cop.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

For a libertarian you sure are a waffle on governmental control. You do realize that if the reforms go through that police will be a guardian force instead of a warrior one trying to do my job, right? It means less money spent on regular cops getting military equipment, lowered spending.

Ah but you never miss an opportunity to take a shot at me. It's pathetic of you.

Also, fuck property when lives are being lost. That's what insurance is for, as stated by the businesses affected in the past week. The local ones are standing with the protesters. Way to continue to be a corporate whore.

Well if you noticed you mental defective I mentioned having zero issue with PROTESTS. But fuck everything about these bastards burning and looting shit. They have no legitimacy and deserve to be put down like the thugs they are. We've had protests in some of Michigan's cities too. Some of them *HAVE* been peaceful. But some of them? Like in poor Grand Rapids? More thugs burning and looting shit utterly undermining any legitimacy the proper protests had by simple taint of association. NOBODY supported that asshole cop. EVERYBODY was united for once on that killing being disgusting.

How many of your local businesses have been destroyed by these bastards hmm? How many people have lost everything because of these barbaric fuckwits? Government's justify their existence by acting as a guarantor of rights. One of the most important being private property. One of the only times government force is genuinely legitimate is in the defense of those rights. Stopping these rioters is legitimate.

You dodged the point completely. You always do that when you can't counter something. You don't have fucking shit to say about these anarchist monsters out to burn and destroy just because it gets their Marx worshiping pee pees hard.

[Sinekein]

You dodged the point completely. You always do that when you can't counter something. You don't have fucking shit to say about these anarchist monsters out to burn and destroy just because it gets their Marx worshiping pee pees hard.

Yeah, uh, anarchists don't all worship Marx, far from it. Too many rules.

Also, anarchists are usually more interested in fighting the police than in looting. If what matters during a riot is for you to put your hands on brand-new hi-fi equipment, you're not an anarchist, you are an opportunistic asshole, and that is a profile that can belong absolutely anywhere on the spectrum.

I will not deny that some want to destroy "symbols of capitalism" and indeed go after small stores (which is pretty dumb, they should go destroy Walmarts or Amazon storehouses, but whatever), but in all honesty, these Fight-Club-like people are few and far between compared to those who want to profit from the chaos and are less interested in breaking showcases than in getting what was behind it in the first place.

[Mobius_118]

Those are boogie boys. Anarchist simps who hate cops and the government.

Your people. Go have a word with them. Protesters don't burn down their own fucking homes. Most of the people we're finding are outside agitators, not locals. That is from credible sources on the ground.

You've already demonstrated you have the intellectual capacity of a rotten potato. Quit embarrassing yourself, GAC.

[TheodoricFriede]

Why is anyone pretending that the cop wouldn't have also just killed a white man who was on meth, committed a federal crime for a pack of cigarettes, and resisted arrest?

This seems to have nothing to do with race what so ever.

[Mobius_118]

Floyd wasn't on meth. There are medications that involve Fentanyl and Methamphetamine for heart problems, and the county toxicology report did not mention any amounts other than trace. So either he's long off a buzz, OR, it's a medical treatment for a heart condition. Probably the 2nd one. The independent autopsy made no mention of drugs in the system. So which do we believe? The county, who has a habit of making shit up, or the independent one, who has no influences other than the medical truth?

Writing a bad check is not worthy of being beaten. I can guarantee you not a single white person was beaten and killed over a bad check. Best part is, the check amount wasn't even close to a felony charge level in this state. At most it would be a misdemeanor. Max sentence is 90 days in jail, $1000 in fines.

Video evidence shows that he was non combative. That means he didn't fight. That means that he was being beaten in the back of the SUV, then asphyxiated using a move even we combat professionals are not allowed to use to detain POW's. Again, there's video from about 3 different angles showing that he was compliant.

We have seen, nationally, mass shooters get trials, fair treatment, and fucking fast food. A black man writing a check or walking down the street doesn't even get due process.

[Vol]

The cop was fired, along with all the cops who watched. He was arrested. He is charged with murder. Everyone was in agreement it was murder and he went too far, that cops shouldn't be doing that.

What is the justice not being actively pursued that is desired? Torture and the death penalty are immoral, so life in prison is about the extent of our legal system to deal with murderers in a permanent, ethical way.

My impression, is there is no goal. It's just angry people being angry together. Reaffirming how moral and righteous they are, with giant companies advertising to them by pretending to share their morals. Some agitators got in to agitate, and it never takes much to convince a mob to break and steal when the emotions are high. It becomes bizarre when mayors and governors voice their support, as if they are not the ones who control the police, and should be the targets of protest. Obama and Biden are chiming in, as if they did not have 8 years, a mulatto man in charge, and multiple race riots, to not work on this "police reform." What is it? Never kill an innocent? I agree, that would be lovely. And if we cannot do that, then what? Disarm the cops? Sure, I agree. In fact, give them flashlights only unless there's an active shooting.

I'm looking from the outside in, so frustrated. There is no substance to any of this. Pure emotion. I don't rightly care if the cops, the blacks, the leftist, the rightists, burn our cities to the ground. More room for farms, better for nature, better for society, really. When the government does something terrible to a black person, the whole world must deal with it, we must swear our allegiance to the value of black lives, we must grovel and apologize, we must tolerate the looting and violence, because they are _angry_, they are angry with this injustice. They are poor, and oppressed, and voiceless, and unrepresented, says all the organizations in charge of our lives. Bow your head, be a meatshield, endure beatings, it's moral for whites to do so.

Man, I don't get it. Charlottesville, one idiot runs a counter-protestor down with his car, 400 years in prison. Major news, forced into our memories as a Nazi march, must eradicate all these awful monsters. But this, justified anger, righteous fury, things can be replaced, bodies can rebuild, but lives, lives are precious. No, not the ones murdered during the riots, but the life of George Floyd. Never again!

Fuck it. If there was "no cops for black communities" movement, I'd sign off it. Maybe they can police themselves better. In fact, no cops at all. We'll all police ourselves. Arm up, better make friends and have large families. Think of how civil it would be, if every stranger you met was likely packing heat, and being a Karen might start a family war.

[Mazder]

Vol, I dont even want to know what he said, but the forum notifies me. Please follow the deal.

That's how the reply/quote system is supposed to work.
You don't get special treatment because you don't wish to interact with someone. Open the latest page, don't even scroll and the notification goes away. It's not hard.
You don't even have to read or see what they have to say.

Why is anyone pretending that the cop wouldn't have also just killed a white man who was on meth, committed a federal crime for a pack of cigarettes, and resisted arrest?

This seems to have nothing to do with race what so ever.

We are not.
We're also not using it as an excuse to excuse the fact that it was a spark to a powder keg that has existed since, in the very least, the 1950's.

I do not mean this as an attack but I find it extremely ironic that you are so adamant for the support of Jewish rights at someone who was being abusive to you, but are seemingly not in support for the exact same thing being applied to black people. Is one oppressed people worth caring about but not the other?
Are you truly unable to see how the murder sparked the reopening of the issue?
The issue has moved "past" the initial murder, it's not longer just about the murder, but the murder plays a role in the demonstration of the divide or freedom in the world around us.

The cop was fired, along with all the cops who watched. He was arrested. He is charged with murder. Everyone was in agreement it was murder and he went too far, that cops shouldn't be doing that.

What is the justice not being actively pursued that is desired? Torture and the death penalty are immoral, so life in prison is about the extent of our legal system to deal with murderers in a permanent, ethical way.

My impression, is there is no goal. It's just angry people being angry together. Reaffirming how moral and righteous they are, with giant companies advertising to them by pretending to share their morals. Some agitators got in to agitate, and it never takes much to convince a mob to break and steal when the emotions are high. It becomes bizarre when mayors and governors voice their support, as if they are not the ones who control the police, and should be the targets of protest. Obama and Biden are chiming in, as if they did not have 8 years, a mulatto man in charge, and multiple race riots, to not work on this "police reform." What is it? Never kill an innocent? I agree, that would be lovely. And if we cannot do that, then what? Disarm the cops? Sure, I agree. In fact, give them flashlights only unless there's an active shooting.

I'm looking from the outside in, so frustrated. There is no substance to any of this. Pure emotion. I don't rightly care if the cops, the blacks, the leftist, the rightists, burn our cities to the ground. More room for farms, better for nature, better for society, really. When the government does something terrible to a black person, the whole world must deal with it, we must swear our allegiance to the value of black lives, we must grovel and apologize, we must tolerate the looting and violence, because they are _angry_, they are angry with this injustice. They are poor, and oppressed, and voiceless, and unrepresented, says all the organizations in charge of our lives. Bow your head, be a meatshield, endure beatings, it's moral for whites to do so.

Man, I don't get it. Charlottesville, one idiot runs a counter-protestor down with his car, 400 years in prison. Major news, forced into our memories as a Nazi march, must eradicate all these awful monsters. But this, justified anger, righteous fury, things can be replaced, bodies can rebuild, but lives, lives are precious. No, not the ones murdered during the riots, but the life of George Floyd. Never again!

Fuck it. If there was "no cops for black communities" movement, I'd sign off it. Maybe they can police themselves better. In fact, no cops at all. We'll all police ourselves. Arm up, better make friends and have large families. Think of how civil it would be, if every stranger you met was likely packing heat, and being a Karen might start a family war.

It's because this case was an outlier rather than the norm in the sense of cops being prosecuted.
Most times they're given a fine, some desk duty for a while, or suspension.
Ooohhh, no, their money get's stopped a little bit for murder. That is not fair and it is not accountability.
Even if they are brought up on charges the fact that the stereotype is that the judge/whoever is in charge of sentencing them recuses themselves or acquits or whatever the legal term is to avoid holding those cops accountable should speak volumes as to how the issue is actually "handled".

The goal, IMO, would be reform and actually holding bad cops accountable.
That is a start.
The rest are social changes that will take a longer time to change but need to be addressed.
I mean we've seen examples already of during these protests that there is an excessive use of force from the police on peaceful protests, and then balking at riots. It shows they don't want to face angry people and help alleviate their anger but wish to be dominant over the people. I am not even touching the stupidly armed state of the police in the USA (which is really too far in a lot of instances) but there is a case of there being just no care given to their actions.
Hell we've seen them attacking media officials from other nations with absolutely no care or remorse.

It's not a case of they want "no cops". They want good cops. They want a fair society.
And despite what some may think this isn't a "we need more hand-outs" issue. They want the poorest areas to have some attention. They're not asking to all instantly become middle-class, they're asking for a fair shot.
We all know the poorer areas of the nation are predominantly black. We all know the higher crime rates happen in the poorer ares, so more likely to be performed by those who are black. We all know that there is corruption that exists.
The status quo can not continue as it has.


The message isn't "white people bow and take the beatings". The message is "white people, help us have the same feeling of freedom you do. White people, help us not have to tiptoe on eggshells so we don't get arrested for asking a white woman to follow the law. White people help us not get murdered when arrested. White people, help us not be racially profiled for being in the poorer areas."
It's all about how they wish to be treated, and they only want to be treated like us. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I don't think any of us here do, truly.
What we disagree on is the method. And so do the peaceful protesters who are angry at riots and those riots being co-opted by a bunch of white people looking to start a fight.

Also the very suspicious amounts of bricks on random street corners with no construction going on anywhere at all should be a bit of a sign that there are people working behind the scenes who just want a fight to break out.

[TheodoricFriede]

Vol, I dont even want to know what he said, but the forum notifies me. Please follow the deal.

That's how the reply/quote system is supposed to work.
You don't get special treatment because you don't wish to interact with someone. Open the latest page, don't even scroll and the notification goes away. It's not hard.
You don't even have to read or see what they have to say.

Actually, this is what was agreed on.

I would ignore, and in return be ignored. This is in writing. I have followed this rule, to the letter, since it was implemented.

If anyone is getting special treatment, it is the person not being banned for breaking the rule. Which was ALSO agreed on.

[Mazder]

Actually, this is what was agreed on.

I would ignore, and in return be ignored. This is in writing. I have followed this rule, to the letter, since it was implemented.

If anyone is getting special treatment, it is the person not being banned for breaking the rule. Which was ALSO agreed on.

The "rule" is not in the website coding/operations.

Your "rules" only apply to you and your situation, everyone else is using the site as it operates.
You want control over who can and can't speak to you on a public site then go make your own and you can apply all the rules there.

You don't like being talked to then turn off the notifications, then you won't get any.
There, simple fix that doesn't make anyone need to do anything else.

I've seldom seen you use the bloody reply feature anyway so I can't say you'd miss notifications much at all.

[Mobius_118]

Thank you Mazder.

Now the question is if trump will continue his decent into despotism, hiding in his bunker from a nation and from his responsibility. My money is on the negative.

We've got a ways to go in reform of the criminal justice system. Aside from the obvious, the FBI really needs to get to labeling the KKK and white supremacists as terrorist organizations. The boogaloo boys tried to start a civil war and blame it on the protesters.

I know a few fell for it here.

[Sinekein]

Why is anyone pretending that the cop wouldn't have also just killed a white man who was on meth, committed a federal crime for a pack of cigarettes, and resisted arrest?

This seems to have nothing to do with race what so ever.

The cop seems to have been a piece of work, so he might very well have killed a white methhead resisting arrest. Or just a white methhead with an erratic behavior, or a guy with schizophrenia.

But the difference is that here, he killed a black man who behaved normally - no drug use, no mental issues. And he apparently did not resist arrest either. Had he been white, he wouldn't have ended facing the ground with a knee on his back for seven minutes.

Race widely changes the odds of police overreacting and using excessive force, basically.

[Mobius_118]

Oh ya. Chauvin's got a history of violence. 19 years, a couple shootings, acts of excessive force. One letter of reprimand. Guy had Internal Affairs on him constantly.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

And yet the police force in that solidly democratic city did nothing to take him off the streets properly before this. Strange isn't it?

Why would these Democratic strongholds not do the police reform you've been banging on about Mobius? They definitely have the votes to push such a thing through. Most police forces are organized at the local and state level, so surely the Democratic states should have been able to do any kind of reform they wished...

But they haven't. Curious isn't it?

[TheodoricFriede]

But the difference is that here, he killed a black man who behaved normally - no drug use, no mental issues. And he apparently did not resist arrest either. Had he been white, he wouldn't have ended facing the ground with a knee on his back for seven minutes.

The toxicology report for Flynn had recent meth use. He was on drugs. He was drunk. And you dont end up pinned by 4 people if you didn't resist arrest.

Should the cop be tried for homicide? Absolutely. Should cops be held to a higher standard? Absolutely.

Does any of that have to do with George Flynn being black? Absolutely not.

[TheodoricFriede]

.

Mazdar, I know you dont have much in your life, but how about you mind your own business and stop pretending like you have any idea whats going on?

[Mazder]

Mazdar, I know you dont have much in your life, but how about you mind your own business and stop pretending like you have any idea whats going on?

Oh, I am sorry, who's bringing it up on the public forum rather than contacting Volrath with direct messages?

You want it private then do it in private messaging system. By writing such things in the public threads you make it [i]everybody's[i] business as we're not all involved, even at the level of a bystander/viewer. I am viewing it and I am commenting on it. You don't want this to happen then use the systems in place for it so it isn't being done publicly.
Don't get hurt I called you out publicly in the public space.

Also this whole "talking about him and not to him" business is really transparent and is getting on my nerves now.
Either turn your notifications off or just shut up.

And Mobius, if it helps, don't use the reply feature on Theo's posts.
I don't care if you want to antagonise him or get him to talk, I don't care. Just stop giving each other ammunition for more petty squabbles.

And even on the other note, it's really obvious you're just trying to step around the race issue.
So, come on, why do you not care about this group of oppressed people?
Or in the very least why are you acting as if the death of a black man in police custody that sparks the discussion of race relations in the USA have "nothing" to do with race?
You do know we know the cop has a history of abusive behaviour. DO you not think that 2+2=4 in this scenario and is not a discussion that needs to be had?
I'm just saying it's odd how an advocate for oppressed people now doesn't want to talk about others who are being oppressed by their own wording. It's just to see an inability to follow the chain of events when you have yourself given evidence for the experience. It's really odd and confusing.
If you don't like me saying it's confusing then please clarify.

[TheodoricFriede]

blah blah blah blah 14 words or less, jesus christ.

I have never seen someone who can turn so little substance into so much text.

[Sinekein]

But the difference is that here, he killed a black man who behaved normally - no drug use, no mental issues. And he apparently did not resist arrest either. Had he been white, he wouldn't have ended facing the ground with a knee on his back for seven minutes.

The toxicology report for Flynn had recent meth use. He was on drugs. He was drunk. And you dont end up pinned by 4 people if you didn't resist arrest.

Should the cop be tried for homicide? Absolutely. Should cops be held to a higher standard? Absolutely.

Does any of that have to do with George Flynn being black? Absolutely not.

RE: resisting arrest

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/video-george-floyd-contradict-resist-trnd/index.html]Apparently, he did not resist arrest

RE: meth use

Meth can be detected several weeks after someone takes it. The autopsy report mentions "recent" meth use, but he was not intoxicated at his time of death. He was intoxicated with Fentanyl however, but that is a drug that causes the opposite of aggressiveness.

[Mazder]

blah blah blah blah 14 words or less, jesus christ.

I have never seen someone who can turn so little substance into so much text.

Okay.
Her's the TL;DR, stop bitching in public you're not getting your way, stop being a cunt about racist actions sparking a race debate.