Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLT9JOE64WQ

[Augustei]

So, lemme get this straight: I consult people, experts, who know significantly more than you on the subject, and they agree with me.

You write barely legible remarks on a message board.

Are you proclaiming that you know more than people who have doctorates on the subject?

As an academic yourself i'm sure you know as well as anyone that the word of professionals means jack unless its been peer reviewed. So far you've linked a blog, so if you want to continue on the argumentum ad verecundiam path, you'd best supply a better source.

These experts should know that democratic socialism is a post-capitalist system, as in its not a system intended to exist alongside a capitalist one, if it does its not democratic socialism (This is why so many socialists were pissed off at Bernies description of his views), its something more akin to social democracy (not socialist democratic) which itself doesn't see itself as a socialist system but a path to one. One could argue the philosophical foundations of numerous government programs as socialist, but the existence of socialist programs in a system isn't enough to make the system socialist.

[Augustei]

Hey, remember when Clinton called trump putin's puppet, and he responded back, much like you are?

Turns out she's right, if you actually live in reality-land.

Point is, you call me a cultist as you reject reality. I've got the law on my side. How about you?

Oh I have reality on my side dear. Your side has lost and will continue to lose as long as you hold fast to socialism and identity politics.

Enjoy 8 years of Trump. You made it happen.

Well whoever is right or wrong it's going to get awkward in here for someone down the line, and hilarious for everyone else =P
Right now it seems the media is pushing Biden as the democratic front man, followed by Elizabeth Warren, make of that what you will.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

So, lemme get this straight: I consult people, experts, who know significantly more than you on the subject, and they agree with me.

You write barely legible remarks on a message board.

Are you proclaiming that you know more than people who have doctorates on the subject?

If those people think a country was socialist before socialism existed? I sure as fuck do.

Also that's another example of you using an appeal to authority. Might wanna do better mr. "I wanna study the LAW".

[Mazder]

So, lemme get this straight: I consult people, experts, who know significantly more than you on the subject, and they agree with me.

You write barely legible remarks on a message board.

Are you proclaiming that you know more than people who have doctorates on the subject?

If those people think a country was socialist before socialism existed? I sure as fuck do.

Also that's another example of you using an appeal to authority. Might wanna do better mr. "I wanna study the LAW".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo

[Mobius_118]

Want to study?

I'm working on my Bachelors in Criminal Justice.

I'm not some freshman, either, jackass. I've got little to do at this point other than graduate.

The Constitutional violations trump has committed are numerous, and I've posted them here. Your caustic reactions tell me you know dick diddly about what you're talking about.

And I've pointed out that immigrants have Constitutional rights as well, as supported by hundreds of Constitutional lawyers and experts. You reacted poorly to that too.

You're the subject of much discussion, GAC, about how laypersons should either educate themselves or stand aside. You need to stand aside.

[Mobius_118]

In knowing about the trump tower meeting in June 2016, trump violated 18 USC 1030 and 18 USC 371.

But keep talking about trump din't do nuffin.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Want to study?

I'm working on my Bachelors in Criminal Justice.

I'm not some freshman, either, jackass. I've got little to do at this point other than graduate.

The Constitutional violations trump has committed are numerous, and I've posted them here. Your caustic reactions tell me you know dick diddly about what you're talking about.

And I've pointed out that immigrants have Constitutional rights as well, as supported by hundreds of Constitutional lawyers and experts. You reacted poorly to that too.

You're the subject of much discussion, GAC, about how laypersons should either educate themselves or stand aside. You need to stand aside.

Nah. I'm actively involved in the political process.

Mostly by mocking crazy people like you and destroying your dreams by being one of the votes that won Trump Michigan.

[Mobius_118]

You haven't destroyed anything other than your own credibility, GAC.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

You haven't destroyed anything other than your own credibility, GAC.

You don't get to decide who is credible cupcake.

Though you've done a wonderful job of ruining your own. Just ask people like Mazder what they really think about you.

[Augustei]

Want to study?

I'm working on my Bachelors in Criminal Justice.

I'm not some freshman, either, jackass. I've got little to do at this point other than graduate.

The Constitutional violations trump has committed are numerous, and I've posted them here. Your caustic reactions tell me you know dick diddly about what you're talking about.

And I've pointed out that immigrants have Constitutional rights as well, as supported by hundreds of Constitutional lawyers and experts. You reacted poorly to that too.

You're the subject of much discussion, GAC, about how laypersons should either educate themselves or stand aside. You need to stand aside.

Huh, weird.. You pretty much described myself. Working on Bachelors in Criminology and Criminal Justice, 1 unit left.
Anyway it looks like the courts are suggesting there is a basis to hear a case against Trump in relation to the emoluments clause of the constitution (specifically relating to his hotel in Washington D.C.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8_FJkafbeM

What do people think?

[Mobius_118]

Well I just pointed out two US code violations. Address those in your 'professional' opinion.

Those are unquestionable violations, bud. Laws broken.

Kicking out reporters for asking questions, which is what they do, and banning them violates the 1st Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Blocking people on twitter, banning reporters, everything he does suppressing people who have the right to question his actions all violate the 1st Amendment.

I could go on, but you'll ignore it anyway. Shitty libertarians gonna be shitty.

[Augustei]

Well I just pointed out two US code violations. Address those in your 'professional' opinion.

Those are unquestionable violations, bud. Laws broken.

Kicking out reporters for asking questions, which is what they do, and banning them violates the 1st Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Blocking people on twitter, banning reporters, everything he does suppressing people who have the right to question his actions all violate the 1st Amendment.

I could go on, but you'll ignore it anyway. Shitty libertarians gonna be shitty.

Who are you talking to? Clearly not me since I don't recall ever stating I was a libertarian. Don't recall saying anything to make you so salty either, unless you're just extremely sensitive. Hasn't there already been a ruling on the case of Trump banning on twitter? Its illegal, okay. And? What else do you want me to say? Personally I don't see how banning them from twitter inhibits them from petitioning the government for redress, but clearly the court says otherwise.

[Mobius_118]

Not you. GAC.

That emoluments case is pretty clear cut as it is. trump hasn't divested himself from his businesses, so every time he's gone to one of his properties he's violated the law.

[TheodoricFriede]

]
Who are you talking to? Clearly not me since I don't recall ever stating I was a libertarian.

Anyone who doesn't agree with him is a 'libertarian'. usually prefaced with an insult.

He's an "adult".

[Mobius_118]

More like if anyone disagrees with the laws posted, they'd better have a good reason. Not that there's any good reason to brazenly violate the law in their self interests.

And it wasn't directed at Augustei.

[Mazder]

And it wasn't directed at Augustei.

Then use the quoting system so those you are talking to know it, otherwise you're addressing the room.

How is this hard to figure out people?

[Mobius_118]

It's not hard to figure out.

There seems to be hardly any point, since according to GAC's previous statements on law violations, the law only applies to the poor and brown people. Flagrant law violations by white people he likes get a pass.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I legit like how a Socialist says that Libertarians are the ones who are useless dregs in society.

Yeah. The people who would rather be left alone to do their own thing are a drain on everyone.

Not the people who reeeeeally want them fucking social programs m8.

Totes.

Also nice b8 there m8. I r8 it 8/8.

Illegals should be deported no matter their melanin level.

Believe it or not Mobius there are people outside your echo chamber that genuinely. From the bottom of their hearts do not give a single fuck about race.

[Mobius_118]

Address the law violations, GAC.

Then we'll see who's full of shit.

[Mazder]

It's not hard to figure out.

No, but it's courteous.
It's a little bit of common decency.

Well I just pointed out two US code violations. Address those in your 'professional' opinion.

Those are unquestionable violations, bud. Laws broken.

Kicking out reporters for asking questions, which is what they do, and banning them violates the 1st Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Blocking people on twitter, banning reporters, everything he does suppressing people who have the right to question his actions all violate the 1st Amendment.

I could go on, but you'll ignore it anyway. Shitty libertarians gonna be shitty.

To be fair if that were the case then Twitter breaks the 1st Amendment daily by allowing people to block other users. Having the block function as a thing breaks it, but I can bet people being harassed would hate if that were to be removed.

I mean you can also have individuals banned from events if they're breaking an event's rules. So at the loosest sense you can take an interview/press conference as a "trump event" and can remove them on breaking grounds under that but that's still shady.

But TBH it's not as if he's the only politician who has ever done that. Clinton's done it, Sanders has done it, Trump, May, Berlescone, Putin, Napoleon (probably).
It's kind of the things politicians do.

[Mobius_118]

Cmon, GAC. Where's that dull wit? Where's the brushing aside of flagrant law breaking because it makes liberals cry?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Cmon, GAC. Where's that dull wit? Where's the brushing aside of flagrant law breaking because it makes liberals cry?

Oh. Ahem.

Your retarded interpretations of laws don't mean jack shit. He's still going to be in office when election 2020 rolls around. Then he's going to win because retarded cucks like you are the heart and soul of the democratic party.

Everything you want and hope for is going to die because you're such an unbearable asshole that no one who isn't equally an asshole wants ANYTHING to do with you. You life is a sad pathetic shell kept afloat by desperate outrage and moronic myopic hope. You live imprisoned in an evil world because you are so goddamn certain that you are virtuous that there is NO fucking way you could ever be wrong.

You are pathetic. Contemptible. I choose to continue to poke you with a stick because you're rather like a retarded monkey in a zoo. I come to watch you cover yourself in shit and call it the break in the MUH RUSSIA case. I come to watch you rail against anything and everything you disagree with as fascism.

Theo bet you he wouldn't have Gestapo killing blacks and gays in the streets by the end of his 100 days. We're 2 years in and none of your worst fears have happened.

You are pathetic. Your only use to anyone is as a momentary amusement. You're probably going to end up eating a bullet or institutionalized after he wins in 2020 and the world will be better for it.

[Mobius_118]

I knew you were pretty stupid, but not this stupid.

I just pointed out the exact laws trump broke in merely knowing and greenlighting the trump tower meeting between russian agents and trump's people.

Instead you...ignore it. Good job. You're full of shit.

[TheodoricFriede]

I would like to add that the Admiral and I disagree on quite a lot politically.

Generally we either talk it our till we are both satisfied, or just agree to disagree.

I have not forgotten how many arguments I have gotten in with him. I have not forgotten the sheer amount of rage I have thrown at him.
He and I have figured out a way to coexist with one another. We both made an effort.

This is how I KNOW you are are the lesser man Mobius. Its not just politics, its that you are not even willing to try to change your perspective. There is no subtlety or nuance to you what so ever. You are a sans culotte, ready to execute everyone who isn't liberal enough.

[Mobius_118]

I asked him to address the law violations trump committed. He swept it aside, instead going back to what he always says.

If he'd have been logical or had good reasoning, I'd point out that the law is the law, and his master violates it on a daily basis so flagrantly that should have every logical person here wondering how and why he's allowed to do so.

Why would I change my perspective when he's objectively wrong about everything he says?

[TheodoricFriede]

Why would I change my perspective when he's objectively wrong about everything he says?

Ahhh that's what a healthy America is made of.

[Mobius_118]

So rejecting wrong views is...bad?

Just following your logic here. I'd rather not associate myself with someone who thinks the Charlottesville nazi's are a good group.

[TheodoricFriede]

Just keep kicking that can.

[Mobius_118]

You're doing exactly what you just accused me of doing, so...

What, you don't want to see it from my perspective? You'd be surprised at how sane it actually is.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

So rejecting wrong views is...bad?

Just following your logic here. I'd rather not associate myself with someone who thinks the Charlottesville nazi's are a good group.

Just as good as the Charlottesville commies.

You know the group you like.

[Mobius_118]

Ah yes, Antifa.

June 6th, 1944. Large protest by Antifa against Nazi's.

What are you getting at here? Are you trying to say that Nazi's are redeemable people? That their ideology has merit?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Ah yes, Antifa.

June 6th, 1944. Large protest by Antifa against Nazi's.

What are you getting at here? Are you trying to say that Nazi's are redeemable people? That their ideology has merit?

If nothing else they killed a respectable number of communists.

The Communists are objectively worse.

So if forced to pick between the two I'd go for the uniforms and jack boots compared to the cucks with the hammers and sickles.

[Raga]

If forced to choose between fascism and communism, I'll go with option C: seppuku in a corner.

[Mobius_118]

Hey GAC. If your way of life is so superior, why are there zero libertarian nations?

Because it doesn't work. So shut your shithole.

[TheodoricFriede]

What an unbelievably stupid thing to say.

There were no Democratic Republics before 1776. The logic of "no one has done it therefore it must be bad" is inherently flawed.

And if we really want to go down this logic leaping path, we could argue that because of communism, we have SEEN how destructive socialist societies can be.

Do i think a purely libertarian society would work? I dont know. Maybe? It probably would only work about as well as communism. Only a small percentage of the population would live comfortably.

But "Why has no one done it?" is an impressively lame excuse.

[Mazder]

Hey GAC. If your way of life is so superior, why are there zero libertarian nations?

Because it doesn't work. So shut your shithole.

That is just a retarded way of thinking.
If socialism is superior then why has every country that has tried it failed? Must be because it's bad.

By your logic of "only the examples we have to hand express the success" then Socialism is an objective failure.
And, yeah, I agree with Theo's points of just because a young political view hasn't been used as the foundation of a country yet doesn't mean it's also bad by default as it's not yet been tested, just as your country's Democratic Republic structure wasn't tried until 1776.

Why would I change my perspective when he's objectively wrong about everything he says?

Because believing someone else to be objectively wrong implies yourself to be objectively right.
Not only is that arrogant, but it is almost as oppressive as the fascism you claim to despise. It's a stance which means you have no time for those you deem even slightly incorrect,t hat deviates even slightly from your political path, that even allies on your own side of the political spectrum are enemies because of one or two things you disagree on. It shows that you can not think about other people and their place in the world, it shows you have no empathy or tolerance as you claim and it shows that you really can not understand any other ideology other than your own, and even if you could there is no visible evidence of it.
People don't ask you to change your political beliefs, merely you be open enough to understand their position in a way that is not dismissive and assuming you know every nuance.

[DarkStorm]

We could just have all the people on the far left move to an island and let them fulfill their "utopia" and study them from afar and see what happens.

[FrozenShadow]

Clinton won by 3 million votes, and our Electoral College failed us.

So what is your alternative to just the popular vote?
Because the popular vote basically means 10 cities can outvote the entire rest of the country. That shit is way more detestable, IMO.

Well, much simpler and more justified system would be that every State has 1 vote and the candidate that gets most individual votes per state gets this "State vote".

With this system, every state would be equal and it would actually be people votes that matters.

[Mazder]

Clinton won by 3 million votes, and our Electoral College failed us.

So what is your alternative to just the popular vote?
Because the popular vote basically means 10 cities can outvote the entire rest of the country. That shit is way more detestable, IMO.

Well, much simpler and more justified system would be that every State has 1 vote and the candidate that gets most individual votes per state gets this "State vote".

With this system, every state would be equal and it would actually be people votes that matters.

Ok firstly I'm on my phone so I apologise for any errors.
Secondly that is a first past the post system, which essentially means anyone in the rural areas of a state is playing second fiddle to the cities, even if they make up the majority of the votes in the country. Which is just bad.

[Mobius_118]

Hahaha, oh wow.

What an unbelievably stupid thing to say.

There were no Democratic Republics before 1776. The logic of "no one has done it therefore it must be bad" is inherently flawed.

And if we really want to go down this logic leaping path, we could argue that because of communism, we have SEEN how destructive socialist societies can be.

Do i think a purely libertarian society would work? I dont know. Maybe? It probably would only work about as well as communism. Only a small percentage of the population would live comfortably.

But "Why has no one done it?" is an impressively lame excuse.

I made a legitimate inquiry. You made a bad argument rebuttal.

This is why I don't take your views into perspective.

Hey GAC. If your way of life is so superior, why are there zero libertarian nations?

Because it doesn't work. So shut your shithole.

That is just a retarded way of thinking.
If socialism is superior then why has every country that has tried it failed? Must be because it's bad.

By your logic of "only the examples we have to hand express the success" then Socialism is an objective failure.
And, yeah, I agree with Theo's points of just because a young political view hasn't been used as the foundation of a country yet doesn't mean it's also bad by default as it's not yet been tested, just as your country's Democratic Republic structure wasn't tried until 1776.

Why would I change my perspective when he's objectively wrong about everything he says?

Because believing someone else to be objectively wrong implies yourself to be objectively right.
Not only is that arrogant, but it is almost as oppressive as the fascism you claim to despise. It's a stance which means you have no time for those you deem even slightly incorrect,t hat deviates even slightly from your political path, that even allies on your own side of the political spectrum are enemies because of one or two things you disagree on. It shows that you can not think about other people and their place in the world, it shows you have no empathy or tolerance as you claim and it shows that you really can not understand any other ideology other than your own, and even if you could there is no visible evidence of it.
People don't ask you to change your political beliefs, merely you be open enough to understand their position in a way that is not dismissive and assuming you know every nuance.

That's just the thing, Mazder. The United States, according to hundreds of political experts, is a Socialist Democratic nation that uses taxes to pay for municipal services. Next time one of these people need police or firemen, they should go and shop around for the best deal, if they want to believe in something else.

And on the perspective bit? Do I really have to explain why I won't align my views with people who support Nazi's and the KKK? Do I, Mazder?

We could just have all the people on the far left move to an island and let them fulfill their "utopia" and study them from afar and see what happens.

I say we move the conservatives to Russia, since they're so willing to support Putin.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

A government doing things isn't socialism you crackpot.

The fact that you seem to think so means that you're fucking terrible at understanding both Socialism and basic civic

"HURR DURR THIS BLOG THO! I AM GENIUS WHO HAS MORE AUTHORITY!" You're a fucking Joke Mobius. To the point that people are consistently willing to admit that I an honest to god Shitlord and Shit Stirrer am a more agreeable discussion opponent than you.

You suck at everything you try to do here and have convinced NO ONE.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Now for the people outside Mobius and his cult today was a good day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vETB4wAbOy4

Very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2U4HKabNNw

[Mobius_118]

A government doing things isn't socialism you crackpot.

The fact that you seem to think so means that you're fucking terrible at understanding both Socialism and basic civic

"HURR DURR THIS BLOG THO! I AM GENIUS WHO HAS MORE AUTHORITY!" You're a fucking Joke Mobius. To the point that people are consistently willing to admit that I an honest to god Shitlord and Shit Stirrer am a more agreeable discussion opponent than you.

You suck at everything you try to do here and have convinced NO ONE.

You still didn't answer the question.

[Mobius_118]

You also failed to address the law violations I've pointed out since day one of this administration.

You keep calling me a joke, a failure, blah blah blah, but so far I've seen you do nothing but try to act like a tough guy and fail miserably, just like your master.

[Mazder]

[quote="Mobius_118"
That's just the thing, Mazder. The United States, according to hundreds of political experts, is a Socialist Democratic nation that uses taxes to pay for municipal services. Next time one of these people need police or firemen, they should go and shop around for the best deal, if they want to believe in something else.

And on the perspective bit? Do I really have to explain why I won't align my views with people who support Nazi's and the KKK? Do I, Mazder?
[/quote]
"Experts" is honestly just a malleable term for "those who agree the most with enough authority".
Also is and was are two very much separate things.
You might have the potential to become Democratic Socialist now but before you have been a Republic/Presidential Democracy.

And just because a system uses Socialist systems it doesn't plant it firmly in the Socialist camp, nor does it make the claim of being entirely Socialist true.
If it were the case the United Kingdom, the Constitutional Monarchy/Parliamentary Democracy would also be a Socialist Democracy, and it just isn't.

I'm not asking you to align your views, I'm asking you to understand why they hold those views other than "HURRR DURR THE'RE EVIL". Stop taking the easy way out with those you do't like. Play the Devil's Advocate and see if you can find an alternate perspective. I'm not asking you to make it your own, just to be able to find it so you can understand their position better. You might even find a way to talk to them and open a dialogue and maybe at the very least swing them from far right to the middle of the road politically.
Center has got to be better than far right for those on the left. Unless they truly hold a "one of us or none of us" mentality. Which is pure poison.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

You also failed to address the law violations I've pointed out since day one of this administration.

You keep calling me a joke, a failure, blah blah blah, but so far I've seen you do nothing but try to act like a tough guy and fail miserably, just like your master.

Oh that's pretty simple.

It wasn't an actual law violation. That meeting didn't even involve op research on the Clinton. That person had also met with a lot of Democrats so might want to step off that particular hill cupcake.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

We've seen the same thing from you over and over again these last two years Mobius.

You'll come thundering into the thread about how THIS NEW THING will FINALLY remove the evil DRUMPF!!! Then nothing happens his approval continues to trickle up and people laugh at you.

You're a junkie. You get your fix by feeling outraged. You get that high you need from believing that your moribund ideology has a chance. It doesn't.

[Mobius_118]

Lying to Congress is a crime, GAC.

Your master said he had no idea, yet there's evidence to the contrary.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States.

He's been lying every day. This particular violation will be on every single crime he's charged with.

I know you'll assert something or other but there's enough with the Emoluments Clause to get him impeached. The Russian investigation will ensure he's in prison, along with lying to Congress and a half dozen other laws he broke.

[Mobius_118]

Ah, there it is.

I really don't get whatever it is you accuse me of by posting.

But hey, you project your bullshit on others to hide your own insecurities. Not a big surprise you refuse to answer any questions and deride people those that challenge you.