Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Mobius_118]

This has happened before, it'll happen again, round and round until we stop existing as a species. Destruction of a shitty part of our society is nothing new.

Too bad the shitty part of society that needs to be put down right now seem to be all law enforcers and a whole race of people in general, both because of a small percentage of rotten apples within them and one shitty US president people are obsessed with. And with huge corporations and rich assholes with all sorts of ulterior motives trying to make look themselves like the good guys by siding with the rioters and the crazy people online. Truly, I see nothing that could go wrong with that.

And you still haven't answered ANY of my questions, you just basically went "dem white suprematists tho".

Where do you think it'll go after this? It's not just the police, it's the rich who do shitty shit too. They probably won't be spared either. And trump, from his bunker and behind is fence, is still just as useless as ever.

I don't think you really get it. The whole system, from the police to the courts, is racist. The entertainment we've been consuming for decades has only just slightly improved, but it's still racist. The people are tired of it. The "Bad apples" theory only works when the whole damn tree isn't diseased.

And you still haven't answered ANY of my questions, you just basically went "dem white suprematists tho".

It's not a wrong answer. If you want to know exactly why they're doing this, watch any number of videos from the protesters about what's going on in the streets. I already posted the video of George Floyd's murder, which was ignored here because no one wants to watch the whole thing. Watch the cops respond to protests about police brutality with more brutality. Watch the white supremacists get told when the curfew was going to go into affect so they don't get arrested.

Watch the cops hesitate when white protesters form a wall in front so they black protesters don't get shot. If that's not good enough for you, I dunno what to tell you.

[TTTX]

At this point, I see things getting even WORSE, because if Biden is elected (which I hope to God he is, because the world really doesn't need another 5 years with the orange asshole in charge) then all the stunning and brave american (fake) liberals, which are totally not racist and bigoted because only white people can be racist and bigoted, will want to sanitize western culture even more, because they'll have to make sure that there is never going to be another Trump.

if Trump wins again, it's only because the Left learned nothing from the failure of 2016 and does the same mistakes all over again.

[Alienmorph]

Where do you think it'll go after this? It's not just the police, it's the rich who do shitty shit too. They probably won't be spared either. And trump, from his bunker and behind is fence, is still just as useless as ever.

It think it's more likely to end up with more divisions between the common folks and the ignorant middle-class, while the wealthy keep laughing all the way to the bank and tell "it's all the other guys's fault" to anyone asking too many questions. Been like that in my country since I was born, and if you think a few days of riots in the street with people smashing everything they come across equals "we're taking the One Percent down next!" you're either naive as fuck or EXTREMELY optimistic.

I don't think you really get it. The whole system, from the police to the courts, is racist. The entertainment we've been consuming for decades has only just slightly improved, but it's still racist. The people are tired of it. The "Bad apples" theory only works when the whole damn tree isn't diseased.

And I think you don't really get how far into the extremist rabbit hole you've stuck your head in. You're literally telling me that ALL of your police forces, ALL of your courts and justice systems, ALL of your culture and pop culture is racist, and by extension most of western countries that are allied with the US and look up to it. That's tinfoil hat cospiracy theorist-worthy almost. There's no denying things like racism, sexism and homophobia are far, FAR from extinct, that's just not up for debate to anyone with a working brain. But you're pretty much saying that there is not a single decent human being in a position of power as of now, and that there hasn't been one for generations, if ever.

Ffs, how did you get a person of color for president before Trump, then? And for two mandates in a row, even. Or what about all the non-white cops, legals, social workers and security workers? Are they all shills and traitors to the cause?

It's not a wrong answer.

Censorship, vandalism and historical revisionism are the DEFINITION of wrong answers. Your country was built over the sweat and blood of slaves, yet calls itself "the land of the free". There's no amount of breaking shit up that will undo or make that not true. Own your mistakes, make sure thei're never forgotten. Don't pretend all your faults magically disappear if you force people to not talk or think about them. That's why you leave stuff like Civil War generals statues where they are, not to celebrate them in a positive way.

[Sinekein]

At this point, I see things getting even WORSE, because if Biden is elected (which I hope to God he is, because the world really doesn't need another 5 years with the orange asshole in charge) then all the stunning and brave american (fake) liberals, which are totally not racist and bigoted because only white people can be racist and bigoted, will want to sanitize western culture even more, because they'll have to make sure that there is never going to be another Trump.

First - well, it might be a good occasion to redefine Western Culture. It's always seen as this big, rather monolithic block but it really is not. The Witcher or the MCU are extremely different things, because they come from very different countries.
If the US part of the Western culture gets sanitized, well, a ton of other stuff will remain. It will be a good occasion to rediscover it. In some cases the accusations of "sanitization" make me laugh a bit though (for comic books in particular) because they are super sanitized, safe and calibrated to begin with compared to many other similar media. I like DC and Marvel but there's more philosophical depth and subtelty in ten random pages of Hugo Pratt's Corto Maltese than in all the stories I've read of Batman, the X-Men or Ms Marvel.

Second - I often see a ton of white liberals calling for...let's say "rather inconsequential" changes to culture. When there is drama because something is called racist, sexist, or whatever else, whether it's true or false, you often find a ton of white Twitter users. For some reason, nonwhite liberals tend to focus on matters of slightly bigger importance - which is what I call the relationship between police and population, no matter what you think of Black Lives Matter; it's a bigger issue than pondering whether Gone with the Wind should be available on streaming without a Trigger Warning.

I assume that when you are liberal, but you are not subject to any injustice yourself, you just create your own causes, and they tend not to be as interesting.

The story I remember was last year's French cosplay champion who was supposed to participate in Eurocosplay but was denied entrance because her cosplay of a LoL character (some undead pirate whose name I don't remember) was considered blackface. Nevermind the fact that LoL is super cartoonish, that the character's ethnicity was not exactly obvious (and the setting is fantasy), and that she built a prosthetic for her cosplay - she did not actually blacken her face. In the end, I'm not sure I've seen a single black person being outraged at her - but a ton of white ones (successfully) called for her head and threatened her if she dared to show up.

Censorship, vandalism and historical revisionism are the DEFINITION of wrong answers. Your country was built over the sweat and blood of slaves, yet calls itself "the land of the free". There's no amount of breaking shit up that will undo or make that not true. Own your mistakes, make sure thei're never forgotten. Don't pretend all your faults magically disappear if you force people to not talk or think about them. That's why you leave stuff like Civil War generals statues where they are, not to celebrate them in a positive way.

Historical revisionism is not bad. It happens all the time. And statues are not here to remember your old dirty laundry - that's what memorials are for. Those particular statues were built to glorify the "lost cause", and it was very much done to remember the good old times when blacks weren't pestering whites with having rights or whatnot and were just sub-citizens.

I doubt Italy still has a ton of Mussolini statues, even if he definitely built some and it's part of the history of the country. Eastern Europe has lost most of its Stalin/Lenin statues too. The French Revolution caused an absolute carnage among statues of kings, with only a handful being spared (Henri IV mostly). And I won't even mention Germany.

And yet Italy remembers fascism, Eastern Europe sovietism, and France the monarchy. On top of that the U.S. have a rather short history, so removing some unsavory statues is unlikely to create a historical void. They'll still know about the Civil War.

Honestly, there is a huge difference between Bristol having a statue celebrating a guy who became filthy rich by packing Africans by the hundreds on his ships to trade them against sugar and cotton, or Nantes having a memorial explaining how the city profited from the Triangle Trade, including the names of all the Nantais ships that sent a grand total of 500.000 people from Africa to America. They talk about the same trade, roughly, but the form of the message matters.

[Mobius_118]

All it took was trump 3 years to undo most of the good things President Obama did to try and create equality. 3 years.

It took President Obama moving mountains to make a little ground in 8 years because of lobbyists, the rich, the courts, the police unions all resisted because it's easier to, say, continue to oppress the poor than actually consider us human.

It's not naivety nor conspiracy theorist to think it all needs restructuring. All of it. If you look at the removal of statues of absolutely shitty people as vandalism and removal of shitty movies as censorship, then holy shit, Germany's handling of history should alarm you as well.

This is just the initial stage of a movement that needed to happen. It'll even out eventually and we'll see how it works out. Getting all antsy now about some statues that Robert E. Lee didn't want and some movies that were subpar anyway is just reactionary as hell. We've seen what keeping that bullshit around has done, it's emboldened a group of fucksticks to think the south will rise again.

At the same time COVID19 is roaring on back for a second wave because a bunch of COVID protesters decided to be retarded. Then in the next few weeks we'll see it ravage some more people. We're in for a rough summer, and that's being conservative about it.

[Alienmorph]

First - well, it might be a good occasion to redefine Western Culture. It's always seen as this big, rather monolithic block but it really is not. The Witcher or the MCU are extremely different things, because they come from very different countries.
If the US part of the Western culture gets sanitized, well, a ton of other stuff will remain. It will be a good occasion to rediscover it. In some cases the accusations of "sanitization" make me laugh a bit though (for comic books in particular) because they are super sanitized, safe and calibrated to begin with compared to many other similar media.

Superhero comics are... for the most part. I remember one of my art teachers, who did inking work for a few Marvel comics, laughing while telling us how even showing a butt-crack or a sidebook in a shot made the editors sweat bulletts and often resulted in clumsy last minute censorship. And this was over a decade ago at this point, looong before the current puritanical craze. Yet stories and characters at least could be interesting and bold, tho that could be often hit or miss, and there was a lot more care for characters consistency and continuity that made feel followinga a character for a long period of time worth it, now everything goes, everyone is expendable as literally all major superhero identities have been made into titles that can be passed on to whoever the authors decide, and everything goes through multiple canon-shattering reboots. Then publishers are surprised trade paperback of old comics sell much more than new stuff.

Second - I often see a ton of white liberals calling for...let's say "rather inconsequential" changes to culture. When there is drama because something is called racist, sexist, or whatever else, whether it's true or false, you often find a ton of white Twitter users. For some reason, nonwhite liberals tend to focus on matters of slightly bigger importance - which is what I call the relationship between police and population, no matter what you think of Black Lives Matter; it's a bigger issue than pondering whether Gone with the Wind should be available on streaming without a Trigger Warning.

For the record, the same way I don't paint my own culture in too broad strokes, the same goes for others or for movements like BLM, that despite what they might be devolving into are born from legitimate concerns and necessities. Like I just said to Mob', nobody with a working brain can deny racism still is alive and well in many places.

I assume that when you are liberal, but you are not subject to any injustice yourself, you just create your own causes, and they tend not to be as interesting.

The story I remember was last year's French cosplay champion who was supposed to participate in Eurocosplay but was denied entrance because her cosplay of a LoL character (some undead pirate whose name I don't remember) was considered blackface. Nevermind the fact that LoL is super cartoonish, that the character's ethnicity was not exactly obvious (and the setting is fantasy), and that she built a prosthetic for her cosplay - she did not actually blacken her face. In the end, I'm not sure I've seen a single black person being outraged at her - but a ton of white ones (successfully) called for her head and threatened her if she dared to show up.

That's exactly it. Some of the best explanations for why the "extreme sjw" mentality is b.s. came from non-white, non-straight folks, and some of the most retarded fake liberal crap tends to come from white people who's biggest problem in life is to what coffee joint thei're gonna go to have breakfast next. Often is a matter of ego, or of wanting more control over others, or just feeling you're doing something important with your life, even tho all you're essentially doing if fucking with people online, from the comfort of your home, protected by anonimity and social distancing. It's why this shit pisses me off so much. There ARE plenty of things in western society that need to be improved, but I do not think the crazy people who think getting a tan equals wearing blackface, or that anime characters should never be white because thei're made in Japan, and that block and bully anyone who doesn't agree 100% with them should be the folks dictating how we try to improve things moving forward.

[Alienmorph]

All it took was trump 3 years to undo most of the good things President Obama did to try and create equality. 3 years.

It took President Obama moving mountains to make a little ground in 8 years because of lobbyists, the rich, the courts, the police unions all resisted because it's easier to, say, continue to oppress the poor than actually consider us human.

It's not naivety nor conspiracy theorist to think it all needs restructuring. All of it. If you look at the removal of statues of absolutely shitty people as vandalism and removal of shitty movies as censorship, then holy shit, Germany's handling of history should alarm you as well.

The point I was making is that if the system is so rotten and rigged as you claim Obama would have never been president to begin with. It's not like he had to do anything crazy to get elected, as far as I know the way he got into the House was pretty much by the book, correct me if I'm wrong. There's no doubt things are fucky where you are, but again... ALL of it? And EVERYONE inside the system? How is any non-white person making an honest living in your country if it's as catastrophic as you claim?

And you can bet your ass other countries' historical revisionism alarms me. The fact for a while you couldn't have nazi in movies because it made Germany mad always made me wince. More than just a bit. And all the people still singing phraises of Mussolini and the likes around here... let's say I'm happy I don't work with anyone of that persuasion, or I'd be unemployed by now.

This is just the initial stage of a movement that needed to happen. It'll even out eventually and we'll see how it works out. Getting all antsy now about some statues that Robert E. Lee didn't want and some movies that were subpar anyway is just reactionary as hell. We've seen what keeping that bullshit around has done, it's emboldened a group of fucksticks to think the south will rise again.

That's like saying astronomy is useless to society because there's still people who think the Earth is flat. What matters are all the people learning from your history and culture to be better, you can't cure the natural tendence to certain people to be stupid. Take away all the stuff that might be interpreted as "pro-south", and they'll just rally around something else. In the meantime, everyone else has less chances to learn how to be a good human being and to no repeat past generations' mistakes.

At the same time COVID19 is roaring on back for a second wave because a bunch of COVID protesters decided to be retarded. Then in the next few weeks we'll see it ravage some more people. We're in for a rough summer, and that's being conservative about it.

As for retarded protesters, I'll just leave this here:

And hope the current protesters know how to wear a mask better than how they know history, or this will be ANOTHER thing you just can't put on dumb white folks alone.

[Sinekein]

Superhero comics are... for the most part. I remember one of my art teachers, who did inking work for a few Marvel comics, laughing while telling us how even showing a butt-crack or a sidebook in a shot made the editors sweat bulletts and often resulted in clumsy last minute censorship. And this was over a decade ago at this point, looong before the current puritanical craze. Yet stories and characters at least could be interesting and bold, tho that could be often hit or miss, and there was a lot more care for characters consistency and continuity that made feel followinga a character for a long period of time worth it, now everything goes, everyone is expendable as literally all major superhero identities have been made into titles that can be passed on to whoever the authors decide, and everything goes through multiple canon-shattering reboots. Then publishers are surprised trade paperback of old comics sell much more than new stuff.

There can be a degree of boldness, but in the comics specifically, the shared universe format is a stakes killer of the highest order.

Authors don't own the characters (anymore), companies do, and you don't kill something that makes a profit. Granted, you find individual authors who clearly have a hard time letting some of their characters go, but here it is at an industry level. And the paradox is that superhero comic book stories always have higher and higher stakes, with not only cities, but countries or entire planets being threatened on a monthly basis...except you know that in the end, Earth will survive and Superman/Peter Parker won't die because they need to keep selling stories in the future.

The best example of that is The Avengers: Infinity War's end. Yeah, it ends with "the snap". Half the cast or more dissipates. But was there ever any kind of doubt they'd be back? When you look at Avengers 3 & 4 as a whole, the casualty list from a Thanos-level threat is short - Iron Man, Black Widow, Vision...Heimdall...that's it right? Gamora was brought back, Loki too thanks to time travel, and Stark is literally the only one who bites it during the final showdown between Thanos' forces and absolutely all the heroes of the MCU.

When you add that to the need to hit the broadest possible audience, you really don't get a very deep medium. You have some very, very good stories, but the number of superhero comic books (which absolutely dominate the comic book genre) that deserve to be called "great visual stories" is rather tiny, especially compared to other kinds of visual media - whether it comes from Europe or Japan. Worse, superhero dominance actually stops non-superhero comic books to get visibility. And I mean, among those "great" comic books, maybe the most famous one - Watchmen - is about an author using several hundred pages to demonstrate all the issues with the superhero genre as a whole.

So I won't cry much if the comic book industry as a whole shrinks. Maybe it will redefine itself in the future and become more daring, but as long as it's locked under the thumb of both Marvel, DC and their revenue expectations, I won't hold my hopes up.

[Mobius_118]

Yet we got some people here who think the protests are not about race or racism inherent in the system.

It wasn't the 54th Massachusetts Regiment Monument.

It was also cleaned up by June 2nd. And you do know that white supremacist groups are still trying to hijack the protest to sway people, right?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yes. I'm sure the it's the "White surpremacists" All 12 of them.

And not the hundreds of communists that enjoy rioting and destroying shit. Keep it up Mobius. Your obvious insanity is more obvious to others to the day.

[Mobius_118]

That's right, you're still suffering fever dreams about commies and Antifa.

Get help.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yes. I'm sure I'm the one who has trouble accurately picturing reality.

It's gotta be me. Because if it wasn't me you might be wrong. And your entire mental infrastructure can't handle your faith being wrong.

[Mobius_118]

You're the one blaming communists for all the problems in the world. It's getting old, having to explain that what you're seeing now isn't communism. This is late stage capitalism, and it's going to change because the old guard is dying off. It's about time we went back to taxing the rich at a fair amount so we can get back to not being a nation in decline, and not call a corporation a person.

At this point every one of your posts is like looking in a McCarthy delusion mixed with a Dunning-Kruger graph. It's a kaleidoscope of racism, classism, and malicious ignorance in your mind, and you need mental help.

[Alienmorph]

There can be a degree of boldness, but in the comics specifically, the shared universe format is a stakes killer of the highest order.

Depends, you can make a good, large story set in a shared universe with various series connected to each other, it's not impossible. But the main 2 superhero publishers have become too big for their own good in that regard, certainly, and the fact there is no endgoal for the stuff they publish but just a "let's keep making shit up until it doesn't sell anymore" mentality doesn't help either.

Authors don't own the characters (anymore), companies do, and you don't kill something that makes a profit. Granted, you find individual authors who clearly have a hard time letting some of their characters go, but here it is at an industry level. And the paradox is that superhero comic book stories always have higher and higher stakes, with not only cities, but countries or entire planets being threatened on a monthly basis...except you know that in the end, Earth will survive and Superman/Peter Parker won't die because they need to keep selling stories in the future.

That goes for all of pop culture, or most of it anyway. The upside is when you get multiple people tackling the same IP there's a chance someone will eventually get it right again, but the last 5-10 years have been a kick in the dick after the other. Hopefully things will begin to trend upwards sooner rather than later.

The best example of that is The Avengers: Infinity War's end. Yeah, it ends with "the snap". Half the cast or more dissipates. But was there ever any kind of doubt they'd be back? When you look at Avengers 3 & 4 as a whole, the casualty list from a Thanos-level threat is short - Iron Man, Black Widow, Vision...Heimdall...that's it right? Gamora was brought back, Loki too thanks to time travel, and Stark is literally the only one who bites it during the final showdown between Thanos' forces and absolutely all the heroes of the MCU.

It's not even about the deathcount. It was interesting because the heroes outright LOST and had to crawl their way back up of the hole they were tossed in, and while the only really earth-shattering death was Iron Man's (and Black Widow too, if you want) the whole thing felt like a proper conclusion to a long-going series. So much so the more I think of it, the more I believe I'm done with the MCU stuff. Didn't even go to see SpiderMan: Far From Home, and Spidey is pretty much my favorite Marvel character, when he's done right.

When you add that to the need to hit the broadest possible audience, you really don't get a very deep medium. You have some very, very good stories, but the number of superhero comic books (which absolutely dominate the comic book genre) that deserve to be called "great visual stories" is rather tiny, especially compared to other kinds of visual media - whether it comes from Europe or Japan. Worse, superhero dominance actually stops non-superhero comic books to get visibility. And I mean, among those "great" comic books, maybe the most famous one - Watchmen - is about an author using several hundred pages to demonstrate all the issues with the superhero genre as a whole.

So I won't cry much if the comic book industry as a whole shrinks. Maybe it will redefine itself in the future and become more daring, but as long as it's locked under the thumb of both Marvel, DC and their revenue expectations, I won't hold my hopes up.

I think the mainstream superhero comics are dead already, they just haven't realized it yet. If the way comic-book movies have popularized superheroes in the last 15-10 hasn't managed to stop the trending downward of the sub-genre, nothing will. Especially if they keep hiring hack authors who only care about what social media CharacterX uses or who they sleep with.

What I'm kind of hoping for is that over the next few years the main Marvel and DC publishing branches are put out of their misery, and then Disney and Warner to make some money on the side lets smaller but more talented and motivated comic book authors paying for the license to make comics with Marvel or DC characters, but as smaller, better thought out continuities and series, instead of the current sprawling messes. It's not even that unlikely, Disney has already granted IDW the license to publish some SpiderMan and Avengers stuff.

And even if that doesn't happen, the good stuff is going to get reprinted until the Sun goes nova (which it won't, Sol is not that kind of stellar body, but you know what I mean lol) and there's plenty of non-superhero stuff to go after too. Finally starting the Metabarons for example, just got the 2-part prequel Castaka mailed to me today. I just wish we didn't need the equivalent of an extinction event for superhero comics to get a chance to get better.

[Alienmorph]

Yet we got some people here who think the protests are not about race or racism inherent in the system.

It wasn't the 54th Massachusetts Regiment Monument.

It was also cleaned up by June 2nd. And you do know that white supremacist groups are still trying to hijack the protest to sway people, right?

Fair enough, should have checked that out better.

Gotta love how you focused on the meme and ignored every other point I was making, tho.

And extremists lying and being manipulative? No fucking shit. I just wish you had the honesty to admit that kind of bullshit runs on both sides and that you need to be weary about it in general.

[Mobius_118]

That's like saying All Lives Matter. Technically true, but right now there's a problem affecting a percentage of the population that needs focus.

[Alienmorph]

There's no "technically true". ALL lives matter you twat, and the fact you're treating it like it's a controversial statement is exactly why I don't trust for shit you so called american leftists, even tho I'm left-leaning myself.

It just sounds to me like you can't be satisfied if you don't always have someone to belittle and blame for the things wrong in your society, and that the only real difference between you and the white suprematists is who you like to target. The lack of self-awareness you display about the flaws of your side of the argument isn't just ironic, but potentially dangerous and damaging for anything worthwhile you may try to accomplish.

[Mobius_118]

Right now, and for the entire history of the US, BIPOC have been marginalized, brutalized, and disenfranchised. Sure, the people who benefit from the system matter too, but we should be focusing on getting the rest of the population up to that point.

This is about focusing on who's affected right now. You do that in combat. It's called triage. A soldier who's hit in the chest and bleeding out has more priority than a soldier who got lightly flash burned on the arm. Both matter, but there's priority with the heavily wounded.

It's the same concept now with how things are going in the US. Does that make sense to you or do you need some graphic photos to drive it home?

[Alienmorph]

Right now, and for the entire history of the US, BIPOC have been marginalized, brutalized, and disenfranchised. Sure, the people who benefit from the system matter too, but we should be focusing on getting the rest of the population up to that point.

This is about focusing on who's affected right now. You do that in combat. It's called triage. A soldier who's hit in the chest and bleeding out has more priority than a soldier who got lightly flash burned on the arm. Both matter, but there's priority with the heavily wounded.

"The people who benefit from the system". Why don't you just say "the people with White Priviledge" like a proper Twitter-bot? Oh right, because then you have to aknowledge the millions of americans who ARE white who live in poverty, unemployment and all-around awful conditions too, and the fact you seem convinced they deserve it, or that their problems matter less. Which is totally not a race-based bias.

I say "all lives matter". You say "all lives matter... but these ones a bit more than those", and making excuses for why that's okay. I can even agree that there needs to be some prioritizing on who gets aided first, but you're just fine with keeping alive the general "us vs them" mindset that has been the basis of almost every social struggle gone bad in human history, so long as the group of people you deem to be the problem gets the short end of the deal. If you can't see how disastrous that can potentially be, then I don't know what else there is to talk about.

[Mobius_118]

That's why denounce the rich along with the system. Without the exploitation by the rich we'd be all better off. Trickle-down economics fucked that idea pretty good.

And no, one group isn't more important than the other. One group (BIPOC) is being treated with more vitriol and hate than the other. It's long past time to change that.

It's easy to fall into the trap that BLM wants to be treated with more importance than white folk. Until you actually talk to the people who are affected, you will continue to fall into it.

Read up on Tulsa, Oklahoma. Maybe you'll gain some perspective.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Seems like your side is throwing a LOT more hate and vitriol than I see directed at the various shades of brown these days boyo.

But you'll keep forging ahead trying to build your utopia. Not noticing much or caring much about the fact that you're alienating so many people (Like Alienmorph here) who would otherwise be rather solidly on your side. But such is the path of the Religious zealot.

[Mobius_118]

Aren't there some hallucinations you need to go yell at?

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVIqNx1zBkM

Well that explains a lot.

[Mazder]

I say "all lives matter". You say "all lives matter... but these ones a bit more than those",

Except it's not that.
It's "All Lives Matter but these lives have been unequal in practice for so long that we need to focus on making it actually equal again".
Anyone who thinks "All Lives Matter" is a genuine counter to "Black Lives Matter" clearly doesn't understand why there is even a need to point out that a certain group need to say they matter.

I say "all lives matter". You say "all lives matter... but these ones a bit more than those", and making excuses for why that's okay. I can even agree that there needs to be some prioritizing on who gets aided first, but you're just fine with keeping alive the general "us vs them" mindset that has been the basis of almost every social struggle gone bad in human history, so long as the group of people you deem to be the problem gets the short end of the deal. If you can't see how disastrous that can potentially be, then I don't know what else there is to talk about.

You do realise that in most examples the "short end of the deal" is just "treat us the same" right?
Like, I am pretty sure that they want to be treated as equal in practice, not just on paper.

Yeah, Black People might have Freedom of Speech, but we've seen far too many examples of "black person speaks at cop line and the cops charge in for them while ignoring ALL the white people doing exactly the same thing".

I mean, I don't want to be the guy to point out the obvious but, what do you see here that is so different to all those protestors who were outside the White House that got gasses and beat and forcibly removed for Trump's photo-op?

Is it shouting? Nope, still some shouting.
Is it standing in a group? Nope, they're still standing in a group.
Is it breaking the law? No, also just standing around and maybe some shouting.

Basically it's not "white people now have to suffer" it's "white people need to stop letting other white people be utter cunts".
That's literally all it is/should be.

The real difference is that one group has had enough of being treated in a way that the majority claims they are not being treated like.

[Alienmorph]

Basically it's not "white people now have to suffer" it's "white people need to stop letting other white people be utter cunts".
That's literally all it is/should be.

Except there's literally thousands of people saying the first, and the funny thing is that most of them are whites who just lost their guddamn mind because of a certain election gone wrong ,and now are gaining more audience and influence than they ever should. Notice how through my whole conversation with Mob' I didn't even imply that BLM as a movement or a concept is inherently in the wrong?

[Mobius_118]

Not once did I say "WHITE PEOPLE MUST SUFFERRRR".

I'm saying the system needs to change. There's a lot of resistance to it because people are complacent, because police brutality doesn't happen to Y all the time, why are X protesting?

And I'm not ignoring the white people who get brutalized either. Those events aren't recorded by a 3rd party, which adds to the shittiness of the whole thing. That's why, as I said, the system needs to change.

You don't live here, so you don't get that, just the snippets that come out. This shit happens every day. It's not working. It has to change.

The systemic racism inherent in the system that beats BIPOC down is the big target now. It'll shift as more elements are revealed.

[Mazder]

Except there's literally thousands of people saying the first, and the funny thing is that most of them are whites who just lost their guddamn mind because of a certain election gone wrong ,and now are gaining more audience and influence than they ever should. Notice how through my whole conversation with Mob' I didn't even imply that BLM as a movement or a concept is inherently in the wrong?

Thousands vs millions who are not saying it.
A couple thousand or even tens of thousands still dwarves the number of those who are not saying it.
And an angry minority (angry because they've not been listened to or waved off by the same rhetoric of All Lives Matter) does not mean that there still isn't a lot of ways the system and those who operate in the system are completely fucked.

Your argument is "I feel punished because the things I used to watch/enjoy are being removed by those who own the rights to said content". That's fine that you feel that way, but if you don't understand that it's their choice to remove it.
They're not being forced or coerced they're making the choice themselves. If the market demands it things will change, that';s kind of what's supposed to happen.
Things being in poor taste are not done any more, that's fine. That's what happens when people analyse the things they make and produce and consume and decide "yeah I don't want this any more".

I mean the fucking Looney Tunes is getting rid of Elmer Fudd's gun. A stupid part of censorship we can both agree with. But what we can also agree with is they're not airing the old cartoons of racist depictions of black people. If ever sold as part of a package they put a "this is a product of the time and we no longer do this shit" plaque on it, but the honest truth is those cartoons have been relegated to the past where they belong.

[Sinekein]

For the record, the last name of the first person oin France to react to BLM with "I DONT HAVE TO BE ASHAMED TO BE WHITE" is Le Pen.

Not the aunt Marine. The niece, Marion, who is way more of an extremist zealot which is saying something.

Only the far right equates BLM with anti-white hate.

[Alienmorph]

Which is why I didn't do it. I've been specifically talking of the american far left the whole g'damn time. There might be some minor overlap between the two, but that's about it.

[Vol]

*snip*

Only the far right equates BLM with anti-white hate.

From the group of all people I've ever spoken to on the matter, it can be from the center left to far right who believe that, albeit with different reasoning. The far right is seen with primacy because they're the only ones who would consistently speak out, as moderates without allies would be metaphorically decapitated.

Except there's literally thousands of people saying the first, and the funny thing is that most of them are whites who just lost their guddamn mind because of a certain election gone wrong ,and now are gaining more audience and influence than they ever should. Notice how through my whole conversation with Mob' I didn't even imply that BLM as a movement or a concept is inherently in the wrong?

Their minds haven't been spontaneously lost now, but rather, it's been a slow boil for decades that's now starting to push the lid off. These people are behaving exactly how they've been conditioned to. Trump is nearly irrelevant to the nature of the acts, only the emotional peaks because of his behavior. Any president would've seen this happen.

Notice how BLM disappeared for the last few years. How many black people were killed by cops unjustly? Some, no- knock raids being a vile example of quite a few, and that Rand Paul is sponsoring a bill to abolish (Which I fucking hope gets through on the tides of the moment), but that's not the point. This one died at the right time to be made a martyr. People were pent up and angry from the corona hysteria. Floyd was an awful human being, but everyone agreed he did not deserve to be killed. That was the brief, shining moment of national unity. And then we had riots, protests, autonomous zones, and the institutions that nominally should be the target of those "whites who just lost their guddamn mind" completely covering for them, gaslighting us, and you're completely right to be angered by it. You expect a degree of civilized decorum and have been given vitriol and told it's your fault. It's only rational to reject that explanation, as you've inherited no secular original sin.

[Sinekein]

Yeah but it's also a super fringe that actively wants to but white people. The immense majority are just calling for equal rights and treatment. And the ones that routinely perform the reductio ad Hitlerum to try and turn BLM supporters into a horde of psychos out for white blood are part of the far right.

Especially since while you can call Mob's opinions radical I never remember him ignoring or dismissing the hardships some white people are facing. He does not behave like a self-flagellating Twitter user who tries to overcompensate for his privilege like you are framing him to be.

BLM was specifically created in response to police behavior. You can take two people, one white one black, equally poor, indebted, and uneducated - the fact remains that one of those is several times more likely to be killed by law enforcement, and that is the injustice BLM is fighting. It never says "we don't care about the white people who are struggling".

And attacking BLM because they are only trying to solve this issue instead of every possible issue in the country is textbook Fallacy of relative privation (or Appeal to worse problems/Children starving in Africa).

@Vol : I was talking about France here.

[Vol]

@Vol : I was talking about France here.

Touche.

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymDtQJAyT80

[Vol]

Having my morning coffee before work, see the big story of the moment is protesters went to go tear down a statue in New Mexico, destruction is creation, some NM based militia group showed up to protect it, scuffle, one guy gets swarmed by protesters and assaulted, he's armed, apparently shoots a guy. Guy'll live. Guess what the immediate reaction was from the onlookers?

Call the police!

Ah, it's going to be one of those days.

Edit: Video!
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/12 ... 9912181760

And here's how the local press reported it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cK_0k1GcyQ

Guess they can't spare a penny for a primary source.

[Sinekein]

[Vol]

I was going to point out how that graph is totally nonsensical, such as having Fox News below OAN and Drudge, or even having "extreme conservative" occupied by any outlet on there.

Then I realize it's a relative center, not an absolute ideological center. So yeah, pretty much, other than moving Fox News a bit more left. The actual "most extreme conservative" outlets are all tiny and dependent on hosting from alternative media sites, like BitChute.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I was going to point out how that graph is totally nonsensical, such as having Fox News below OAN and Drudge, or even having "extreme conservative" occupied by any outlet on there.

Then I realize it's a relative center, not an absolute ideological center. So yeah, pretty much, other than moving Fox News a bit more left. The actual "most extreme conservative" outlets are all tiny and dependent on hosting from alternative media sites, like BitChute.

I think it's funny that CNN and MSNBC are as close to the center as they are on this, kek.

[Mobius_118]

I was going to point out how that graph is totally nonsensical, such as having Fox News below OAN and Drudge, or even having "extreme conservative" occupied by any outlet on there.

Then I realize it's a relative center, not an absolute ideological center. So yeah, pretty much, other than moving Fox News a bit more left. The actual "most extreme conservative" outlets are all tiny and dependent on hosting from alternative media sites, like BitChute.

I think it's funny that CNN and MSNBC are as close to the center as they are on this, kek.

Yet you post FOX news and think it's reality.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

All three networks are capable of posting truthful things. They just all happen to do a fair amount of spin.

Look at what happened with that thug in Atlanta. Media is trying really hard to spin it as another dindn du nuffin martyr. Anyone who has seen it knows the truth.

Knew you couldn't resist a little catty jab though. It's like stimulating the brain of a rat. Very predicable results.

[TheodoricFriede]

Look at what happened with that thug in Atlanta. Media is trying really hard to spin it as another dindn du nuffin martyr. Anyone who has seen it knows the truth.

The car was in the drive-through of that fast food restaurant when he got there!

[Vol]

Well, you work with the martyrs you get, not the ones you want. Though going with murder charges for the Wendy's cop is not possibly going to work given the situation.

[Vol]

Today we discover that Obama's executive orders are sacrosanct. The SCOTUS decided that a legally dubious series of memos by Obama are inviolable unless the new guy convinces them he has a really good reason to remove it. The executive is bound by the previous executive's napkin scribbles, which I'm sure will apply to Trump's executive orders in turn (They won't).

Now, Trump could fight it again, with new reasoning, but it took 3 years to get through the courts last time. Won't be started in an election year. So best case scenario, he could take a second shot at repealing it in the 3rd year of his 2nd term. If that fails, time's up. If he loses, well, Biden won't do shit about it, and the GOP will probably grovel and pass mass amnesty or whatever the neoliberals want.

So the court and Obama have de facto created law. The kicker is that the point of Trump rescinding DACA was to use it as leverage in negotiations with the Democrats for a larger immigration overhaul, and that he/the GOP were explicitly promising no deportations for the people under the program. So Congress is useless, the Judicial is making law from the bench, and the Executive is paralyzed by them working in tandem. Huzzah.

[Sinekein]

The decision was taken because Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the four more liberal judges.

Trump has continuously tried to move the Overton window to the right. He just doesn't realize that some people's morality has not shifted. So a moderate yet decidedly conservative judge, appointeed by Bush 43, now disagrees with his decisions. It should be cause for reflection - if you need a SCOTUS loaded with rabid conservatives to get your decisions through, maybe it's because you're not very moderate yourself? Maybe you should rethink your policies to make them more palatable to the moderate aisle of your base?

I assume that if instead of rescinding DACA altogether, Trump had decided to replace it with a different executive order, Roberts might have been okay with it. Seriously, just showing you had some concern about what happens to children illegally entering the country (which in all likelihood is not a decision they made, but that their parents took) might even have shifted Breyer and Kagan - there are options between "being eligible for a work permit" and "being locked up in a camp until a very split Congress takes a decision" which would have been the scenario without DACA.

But I think that's what happens when you elect a president who brags about not being part of "the political system". Such a system has rules, and the people who are part of it are human beings with their own psychology, and Trump has showed he didn't care for them for three years - hence his horrendous Congress record, since his only strategy is to antagonize people who dare to disagree with him. Obama had to compromise to get some of his policies through a red Congress, but Trump seems pathologically incapable of doing so.

[Mobius_118]

Knew you couldn't resist a little catty jab though. It's like stimulating the brain of a rat. Very predicable results.

When anyone says something stupid.

You're not special.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Knew you couldn't resist a little catty jab though. It's like stimulating the brain of a rat. Very predicable results.

When anyone says something stupid.

You're not special.

Shhh hush my darling. Everyone knows of your sinful lusts.

[Mobius_118]

Hey man, you're the one who squawks about Antifa, despite it being a figment of your imagination.

And you love it when police kill people.

We all know you're a sociopath. You may as well admit it.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hey man, you're the one who squawks about Antifa, despite it being a figment of your imagination.

And you love it when police kill people.

We all know you're a sociopath. You may as well admit it.

Antifa exists my darling little partisan.

They've been attacking people and burning things in greater or lesser degrees for a while now. But you are once again buying a media narrative about all this. You are truly inspirational. The Party would love you.

[Alienmorph]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hXJx0GIxbk

I fucking hate 2020. And this is from Europe, I PAY a Sky subscription every goddamn month.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

But... Aliens was a great movie and Ripley was an awesome character...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9rdGvme-6U

You know. The Eastern Roman Empire eventually figured out how to deal with Iconoclasts...

[Mobius_118]

Antifa exists my darling little partisan.

They've been attacking people and burning things in greater or lesser degrees for a while now. But you are once again buying a media narrative about all this. You are truly inspirational. The Party would love you.

You're a nutjob.

Antifa, also known as Anti-fascist, encompasses those WW2 veterans that fought against Nazi Germany.

The real threat is the alt-right movements, white supremacists, and trump encouraging uprising against what the US should ideally stand for. It has been sad watching you decline mentally.