***Mass Effect Andromeda SPOILER Thread***

[magnuskn]

The male one is not very good, either.

Finished the game, so I'll write a review for here. Left on a pretty good note, with what I assume has to be the "best ending" and directly after that the movie night. Still, um... it's not gonna be a happy one. So, if you really like the game, don't expect to like very much what you'll be reading.

[magnuskn]

*edit* Noticed that my review actually is not full of spoilers, so I moved it to the general thread.

[DarkStorm]

Lol one time excursion, you got high hopes bro.

But I do agree with some of your points others that I disagreed with is basically personal preference.

[TheodoricFriede]

I played my first run as almost entirely professional/logical (Though Dr. Sexi noted I would be emotional only in intimate situations, which implies she's aware of a lot), and it was a smooth ride. He came across as a younger Shepard for the most part, trying to find his legs and authority. The second run, which I'm slowly progressing on, I'm going casual/emotional, and it really does make him seem totally different, even an ass at times.

My dialog choices changed depending on what felt appropriate. Early game i tend to go with professional and analytical choices, with the occasional snide comment. As the plot progressed, i became more casual and emotional with my crew, but still tended to default to diplomatic choices with authority.

Closer to the end I was much more confident, emotional, and casual with everyone.

I was able to do actual roleplaying. Without really even thinking about it, I was developing Ryders character. That was never something i could do with Shepard. Not even close.

[Vol]

The second ME4 book, Lost Ark, is slated for July 3rd.

So that's a decent estimate for when the quarian DLC pack might come.

[Someone With Mass]

So that's a decent estimate for when the quarian DLC pack might come.

Has that been confirmed in any way or is it just a guess?

[TTTX]

Has that been confirmed in any way or is it just a guess?

Not yet, but like Omega in ME3 and Shadow Broker in ME2 it's hinted at in game because the make references to the Quarian ark here and there through out the game.

[Dragaros]

None of that Vetra stuff is new, FYI.

I’m well aware. Didn’t post them ‘cause they’re new; posted them ‘cause they amused me.

“Everyone wants a spikey girlfriend.”

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxPah79ly4U

Ryder: I ain't been droppin' no eaves!

[Dragaros]

Double Dextro Glitch Special

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

[Vol]

One of the weirder complaints I'm hearing is about Gil's character arc, with Jill and the baby.

The Andromeda Initiative already fucked up by bringing a ridiculous amount of homosexuals, plus possibly sterile people, and after the Scourge hits, the civil war, the attrition, the lost colonies, the open warfare, breeding as many people as fast as they can is kind of necessary. With as much genetic diversity as possible. Gay? Fine, but here's a specimen cup, contribute to the cause, faggot.

So reading complaints that it's unrealistic and homophobic that Gil would indirectly sire, and be involved in the raising of, a baby, is hard to wrap my head around. I'm picturing the checklist I would make if screening applicants, and down around #10, "Would you be willing to carry/sire as many children as resources permit, as is requested of you by the Head Breedologist, either directly or indirectly depending on consent, and with whichever partners we deem optimal for ensuring genetic health of our species, once we are established in Andromeda?"

And then everyone who says no, unless they are incredibly valuable, gets tossed in the bin.

Edit: Of course then you run into needing communal daycares, dealing with people (especially women) who don't want to go through with it, etc. But once all the remaining sleepers are awake, gotta replenish the ranks. I think by the end of my first run, I'd personally killed enough exiles/outlaws/whatever that there shouldn't be many left in the cluster.

[Alienmorph]

Hell, if anything you'd think it'd be normal by the time mankind leaves to Andromeda for homosexuals to procreate in vitro and/or be foster parents. Since y'know... it's the fucking future and I don't really see gay being a problem if we can get along with space dinosaur people. So I don't see what's the big deal in suggesting a gay person to do so, when partecipating a colonizing effort.

Whoever selected the people to GO on the damn mission must have been an idiot. You'd think "willing to make lots of babies" would be a kind of important character trait.

[Someone With Mass]

Man, the more I know about the kett, the more I wish the Reapers would arrive and cleanse the entire Andromeda galaxy of their kind as an act of mercy for every other race out there. No one deserves to be subjected to that much retard.

Also, I would love so much if the protagonist of a Mass Effect game could for once at least attempt to sabotage an enemy ship before leaving. Like...find the largest power source and rig it to explode instead of going all Dora the Explorer until they're so deep in the shit that they need to bail. It bothered me in ME2 and it bothers me here.

[TTTX]

Man, the more I know about the kett, the more I wish the Reapers would arrive and cleanse the entire Andromeda galaxy of their kind as an act of mercy for every other race out there. No one deserves to be subjected to that much retard.

I don't see that much difference between The Reapers and Kett, expect for their motivations.

[Vol]

Whoever selected the people to GO on the damn mission must have been an idiot. You'd think "willing to make lots of babies" would be a kind of important character trait.

Exactly. At the very least, every person needs to create 1 person to replace them, and with the losses taken already, there needs to be some serious babymaking once resources stabilize. Unless the A.I. is super casual about the plan after the first generation starts dying off, because "muh civil rights" or something.

I don't see that much difference between The Reapers and Kett, expect for their motivations.

They're very similar, but opposite motivation. Reapers are the end of organic progress, nothing can advance outside or beyond what they want, but in doing so, they preserve biodiversity in a sense. Kett are the end of progress, they're a cancer that has to gobble up existing diversity in order to continue, which is obviously a doomed goal.

Suppose you could call them the Harvesters and it would work just as well.

[TheodoricFriede]

One of the weirder complaints I'm hearing is about Gil's character arc, with Jill and the baby.

A far bigger issue, as far as i can tell, is the inconsistencies in the story relating to whether or not children were brought to Andromeda at all. The initial implication is no, and in fact Liam gets super pissy at Vetra for bringing Sid because shes "just a kid".

But on various arcs you see that the asari brought kids (Like, coloring book age), and you find a dead turian child in one of the stasis pods on Elladin.

As far as the whole Gil thing, turns out the internet gets mad about things they dont understand. I dont think its inconceivable that two close, but not necessarily sexual, friends would want to raise a kid together. Its not as though a child cant develop properly unless it knows its parents are having sex in the next room.

[Vol]

Children were brought, clearly. Maybe not on the Hyperion, barring evidence to the contrary, but the asari clearly did. And Sid's barely the age of majority if at all from what I inferred. What is Liam's objection? That a kid cannot make such a big decision?

I'm pretty sure it's not an uncommon arrangement even, finding a surrogate womb from among friends. But I'd be real curious as to if the Initiative had this talk with people or not, especially the women. Because the entire future of everyone is dependent on them cranking out kids, and that's a hell of an imposition. Because there's no way they'd ever force that issue, that'd be a bit of outright evil Bioware wouldn't touch.

100,000k total people. If we assume the Nexus was divided equally, 5k humans, 25k humans total. Both ships hit the Scourge, I don't know the losses. Then the failed colonies, civil war, yada yada, let's say for the sake of napkin math, 20k humans are left under Nexus control. Divide by sex, 10k women. So just to maintain population, that's 2.5 kids apiece from every single woman. Which isn't crazy, actually, over a 150 year life, assuming menopause kicks in at around 50 still, but egg viability holds until then thanks to medicine magic, that's 35 years or so, divide out by kids, that's 1 kid per 14 years. Assuming no further losses, no infertility, and total participation.

Now that's not realistic, obviously. But you can see the mathematical issue here, especially if they want to rapidly expand. So with that said, yeah, I'd say that a pair of fathers raising a kid, or two, or three, or four, would be highly welcomed by society. It'd be way more communal than child-rearing now to boot.

[TheodoricFriede]

I think one thing to also take into account is that there is probably a hell of a sperm/egg bank program.

To an extent even if some people dont want kids, you could still make sure a viable population exists with surrogate parents and adopting and all of that.

[NCLanceman]

Let's not forget farms. What they tell you when you go out and find habitable planets is that you're doing this for the express purpose of making farms to feed the Nexus. Here's the first study I could find on this topic and it basically says that fertility rates in rural areas pretty much everywhere are higher than urban ones, and it's not just because they can't find condoms out there. It's mostly because five year olds can help on a farm, and you have to get to seventeen to really help in an urban area, so it pays to have five kids on a farm, literally and figuratively.

Of all the problems with the Andromeda Initiative setup, repopulation is the easiest one so long as they can find places to farm. That's it, man.

[Spartanburger]

"Hey guys. We're looking for volunteers for this amazing exploration and colonization initiative where we go to a complete other galaxy! Also, you can't come along if you're gay."

Yeah, I'm sure that will fly.

[Vol]

@Theo: Yeah, at the very least, you'd want everyone to donate a sample to the pool. They brought a diverse bunch of humans, which is the first time I can't actually complain about it since it makes sense, but with the losses, they really gotta be careful there. Small colonies are going to need careful planning, depending on how long term some of the setups are.

@Lance: So that's an even higher baby/woman ratio! Given it would obviously be consensual, and that not every woman would necessarily want that number, we'd logically see some really interesting families going forward. Not that they'll think this hard about it in the game. But farm families might have 10+ kids, easily, with the Nexus' blessing, to compensate for those who don't. Then there's the logistics of needing extra hands, shipping out kids to help elsewhere, and we're in some fun territory.

@Spartan: "You can be gay, but you'll need to contribute sperm/eggs to the genetic vault, and you may be called upon to help raise children."

It's not like the Initiative has the luxury of carte blanche reproductive behavior, much less after X thousand humans are basically gone.

[DarkStorm]

"Hey guys. We're looking for volunteers for this amazing exploration and colonization initiative where we go to a complete other galaxy! Also, you can't come along if you're gay."

Yeah, I'm sure that will fly.

I think they should just say you must be willing to help procreate or provide what is required to procreate.

[TheodoricFriede]

@Theo: Yeah, at the very least, you'd want everyone to donate a sample to the pool. They brought a diverse bunch of humans, which is the first time I can't actually complain about it since it makes sense, but with the losses, they really gotta be careful there. Small colonies are going to need careful planning, depending on how long term some of the setups are.

I dont think they lost as many people as it seems like. Its not as though every single human on the Nexus was exiled. Frankly I dont care much about the remote colony of 50 or so people that didnt want to play by the rules, and forgot that genetic diversity is downright necessary.

[Mobius_118]

Although it's the future and being gay or trans isn't really a hot issue...They really fucked up by having so many homosexuals on a colonization effort.

Not something you want on a mission where manpower won't be available in the event your population ends up genetically recessive, or completely wiped out.

Despite genetic manipulation and gene seed pools, which can go wrong because of sabotage/galactic fuckery like the Scourge, I just don't see it as a viable strategy.

Then again I think Bioware doesn't know how to handle the rainbow.

[Someone With Mass]

I'd consider bringing the race that suffers from a sterility plague to be more of a questionable decision than the gays if we're talking reproductive efforts. At least the latter can provide viable genetic material.

[Mobius_118]

But they at least worked on fixing the genophage. It won't be as all encompassing as Mordin's cure, but they did undergo sanctioned gene therapy to increase viability.

Eventually that would be repaired and they could breed as normal. A population of gay people, without access to genebanks, would have to do away with that label and do what needs to be done.

Still, it makes no sense, logistically speaking, to colonize another galaxy with a high proportion of homosexuals. It's counter-intuitive, counter-productive, and makes no god damned sense. Not even interpersonal drama can account for it.

[Someone With Mass]

But they at least worked on fixing the genophage. It won't be as all encompassing as Mordin's cure, but they did undergo sanctioned gene therapy to increase viability.

Eventually that would be repaired and they could breed as normal. A population of gay people, without access to genebanks, would have to do away with that label and do what needs to be done.

Still, it makes no sense, logistically speaking, to colonize another galaxy with a high proportion of homosexuals. It's counter-intuitive, counter-productive, and makes no god damned sense. Not even interpersonal drama can account for it.

Now I can't help but wonder if there's a human movement within the Mass Effect universe which claims that homosexuals are stifling human colonization efforts. Kind of like that Terra Firma movement, but for gays.

[Mobius_118]

Maybe, but it's not mentioned in any codex.

InB4 rage: My stance is that it wouldn't make sense for a massive colonization effort, but I have no problem with homosexuals, trans, however many denominations of the LGBT community there are now. Just being a pragmatist. If that upsets you, I have a couple middle fingers you can observe and report.

[Alienmorph]

Again... I don't see the harm of taking a well-qualified homosexual person in a colonizing mission, as long as he or she is willing to donate some genetic material for others to use or to foster children. Which should not sound like something so unbelievable or controversial, since it's the fucking future AND we're going to another galaxy with the help of several alien species!

[Vol]

Wait, do humans lay sole claim to Meridian, or is it a shared thing, or what? We're the only ones without arks now, but we're turning ours into a city, so do the other species get to rough it out on the golden worlds that we fixed?

[Vol]

@Theo: I have no idea how many are lost, only read a few chapters into the Nexus book. Was the surviving Nexus crew completely woken from stasis?

@Mob: The way I see it, having a culture that allows personal freedom is a luxury of abundance and security. If you're in a pure survival scenario, very little else matters beyond hour-to-hour decisions. The colonists are somewhere in between, since they're not literally about to all die, but they also don't have the time to faff around and live like first world urban dwellers.

So bringing along a seemingly large amount of people who require artificial means to reproduce, or cannot at all, is a very poor survival decision. I give Gil credit there for being dutiful and helping keep this project going with Jill, even if he is a sausage-bandit. Gotta go with Greek rules for a while, sire some heirs, then you can go play with the boys.

Krogan, they'll be fine. 1/1000 to 40/1000, with improving odds as time goes on.

@Alien: I agree, though the in-game representation is surely not indicative of the actual breakdown. Gil is an example, he's a highly skill engineer, he's willing to father a kid, he's worth bringing. A lesbian farmer though, that's a problem. It's not high-skilled work, and there's going to be a ton of farmers anyway. Is she going to live with only another woman on their lonesome out there? Will she have kids? Will she consent to natural insemination? Does the Nexus need to send a medical crew and a donor sample out to that farm for her every few years? Why bring her to begin with?

Setting the bar at high skill/willing to sire, that's smart. Bringing a number of people that would need this to be a consideration, less so.

[TTTX]

Krogan, they'll be fine. 1/1000 to 40/1000, with improving odds as time goes on.

yeah, all Kesh eggs, that she laid, are filled with little baby Krogan.

If she is doing that good, I can only imagine how the other krogans are doing.

Wait, do humans lay sole claim to Meridian, or is it a shared thing, or what? We're the only ones without arks now, but we're turning ours into a city, so do the other species get to rough it out on the golden worlds that we fixed?

I'm guessing shared, it's a big planet and the other need a place too, except the Krogan who have their own place.

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2P9dU_haXw&list=WL&index=9

[Raga]

I don't think the farm=lots of kids rule would apply here because of automation, hydroponics, bio-engineering, and assorted other tech that makes farming way more efficient. There's a reason family farming went extinct in the US for the most part and it's because big corporate conglomerates with combine harvesters and a few seasonal workers can outproduce family farms to a ludicrous degree. Modern society just doesn't need anything like the levels of labor necessary for preindustrial or 3rd world agriculture and things will only have advanced more in the next 200 odd years.

I also think genetic viability won't be a problem because I imagine they have stored genetic data from many people, many more than actually made the move to Andromeda.

So yea, reproduction will be a big goal, but there hardly need to be like 5+ kids per person or something for viability. The population can bear the brunt of a few homosexuals (or turian bangers).

[Vol]

First character moment with Kesh in the Nexus novel: "Tann, who has done nothing yet, is a symbol of the bigotry against krogan we're trying to leave behind, grrr I'm getting so mad about that salarian, he's such a bigot, that bigot!" <- Kesh is a bigot

[TheodoricFriede]

Uh... to be fair, Tann is a complete bigot.

[TTTX]

First character moment with Kesh in the Nexus novel: "Tann, who has done nothing yet, is a symbol of the bigotry against krogan we're trying to leave behind, grrr I'm getting so mad about that salarian, he's such a bigot, that bigot!" <- Kesh is a bigot

Nah, she is pretty spot on with Tann.

[Vol]

Tann is absolutely a bigot, but Kesh doesn't know that. None of them know anything about the man beyond his job, yet soon as he's out of stasis, they (Sloane, Kesh, Addison) actively start treating him like shit. The guy's done nothing wrong so far, yet he's being given the slimy, racist bureaucrat treatment.

[TheodoricFriede]

Tann is absolutely a bigot, but Kesh doesn't know that. None of them know anything about the man beyond his job, yet soon as he's out of stasis, they (Sloane, Kesh, Addison) actively start treating him like shit. The guy's done nothing wrong so far, yet he's being given the slimy, racist bureaucrat treatment.

Ah, so its shitty writing.

In a Bioware book.

No one could have predicted this.

[TTTX]

Tann is absolutely a bigot, but Kesh doesn't know that. None of them know anything about the man beyond his job, yet soon as he's out of stasis, they (Sloane, Kesh, Addison) actively start treating him like shit. The guy's done nothing wrong so far, yet he's being given the slimy, racist bureaucrat treatment.

ah, poor writing.

Not surprised in anyway.

[Vol]

The writing is average, prose is neither great nor painful.

In game too, it's as if they wanted Tann to innately come across as a soft antagonist, and I was honestly expecting him to betray us to the kett based on that one conversation you have about their tactics against the angara, but in practice, he's an anti-krogan pencil pusher who's in way over his head and kind of whiny.

Needs more showing of why he's a bad guy to justify the treatment, not, "This is a salarian accountant, he shouldn't be in charge, he doesn't like krogans, boo this man."

[Raga]

I didn't mind Tann. I thought he was actually pretty reasonable, other than going along with screwing over the krogan. And to be fair I've actually always been 98% in agreement with the salarian/turian treatment of the krogan. The only reason I agree to cure them in ME3 is because of Eve and Reapers. I don't even really trust Wrex. The underlying problem isn't that they are unintelligent brutes. They can actually be quite smart and critical. The problem is that they historically have shown 0 willingness to voluntarily check their birth rate. And their immediate response to either curing the genophage in ME3 or founding New Tuchanka in MEA (WE GOTTA BREEEEEED!!!) is not exactly confidence instilling either. You can't have 1000 children a year (or even 10-40) in anyplace that isn't preindustrial Tuchanka without eventually outsourcing your unsustainability problems on other people.

Addison is the biggest fuckup. Half of your job seems to consist of fixing shit she messed up (deals with pirates, letting some crazy woman have backend access to tech, employing a conniving weasel who actively undercuts everybody else) and then she has the gall to be holier-than-thou to you because you are green. I repeatedly wanted to say "I may be green, only one of us has a record of fucking up over and over and over and it's not me."

[Someone With Mass]

Well, that high noon showdown between Reyes and Sloanne was...anticlimactic. I let Reyes' sniper take the shot, because Sloanne has been a bitch since day one, she kills a lot of people for no good reason and does fuck all to help anyone on Kadara and only revels in being the stereotypical mob boss. Reyes may be a shady opportunist who looks after #1 (himself) the most, but at least he tries to help out and clean up. That and I never really liked anything about Sloanne. Not her background and certainly not her looks. Such a wannabe-Aria.

Saw the whole Charlatan angle coming a mile away too. Hell, I started to think that the second I noticed that the Collective and Reyes have similar clothing.

Started Vetra's romance. I decided to not use the jump pack. It's only a victory if you've worked to earned it. I was surprised that she didn't have anything to say about it on the Tempest.

After that and the bar fight with Drack, I finally managed to trim the quest list for Kadara down to a few task quests, which I refuse to do on principle. Then I heard talks about the locals having a run-in with a big machine and I suspect that it's a Remnant Architect. Then I got hungry and decided I've done enough.

[TTTX]

I didn't mind Tann. I thought he was actually pretty reasonable, other than going along with screwing over the krogan. And to be fair I've actually always been 98% in agreement with the salarian/turian treatment of the krogan. The only reason I agree to cure them in ME3 is because of Eve and Reapers. I don't even really trust Wrex. The underlying problem isn't that they are unintelligent brutes. They can actually be quite smart and critical. The problem is that they historically have shown 0 willingness to voluntarily check their birth rate. And their immediate response to either curing the genophage in ME3 or founding New Tuchanka in MEA (WE GOTTA BREEEEEED!!!) is not exactly confidence instilling either. You can't have 1000 children a year (or even 10-40) in anyplace that isn't preindustrial Tuchanka without eventually outsourcing your unsustainability problems on other people.

Addison is the biggest fuckup. Half of your job seems to consist of fixing shit she messed up (deals with pirates, letting some crazy woman have backend access to tech, employing a conniving weasel who actively undercuts everybody else) and then she has the gall to be holier-than-thou to you because you are green. I repeatedly wanted to say "I may be green, only one of us has a record of fucking up over and over and over and it's not me."

Personally I don't trust Tann much (as he is very quick to dismiss his coworkers opinions after Ryder returns successful), he only only really kisses Ryder's ass because they are succesful.
Well even Wrex said in ME1 it wasn't the genehopage that was killing the krogan it was their own idiocy/culture and not wanting to change that was slowly killing them. However there seem to be a growing number of slightly less aggressiv krogan who uses their heads more then just kill and bully to get their way, like Wrex, Eve, Kesh, Vorn and so on.
Well New Tuchanka wasn't funded on their need to breed, but because they got screwed over by Spencer and Tann after the Krogan helped put down the uprising in return to get more say politics, but making babies is going be something the Krogan is going to focus on, because it's hard for them to actually make children even with the small 4% decrease of the genehopage effects is still going to be a challenge for most of them.