Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Mobius_118]

Hillary Clinton cleared of any wrongdoing in the Uranium One Deal.

Just like she was cleared of any criminal charges in the email conspiracy the GOP pumped out.

It's almost as if the GOP is throwing up smokescreens in order to rob the country blind or something.

[Vol]

@deism and evolution stuff

I'm not a deist in that I don't think he 100% hands-off, but I also don't really think he is in the business of curing Aunt Sally of cancer or counting how many times you haven't brushed your teeth. I do think we were put here for a moral purpose, however, so there are strong undercurrents of a Judeo-Christian God in there, such that I usually qualify myself as a "Yahweh worshipper" and/or agnostic monotheist.

I think the whole universe amounts to basically an experiment as to whether entities separate from himself can have a state that is not utterly consumed or smothered by him, but still have an association with him, which is hardly intrinsically obvious if you really are an immortal, eternal, all-powerful, etc. etc. It reminds me of that spiel about Reapers in ME2 "A real god is a verb. It's a force. It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it." Or to quote Shakespeare "Under it my genius is rebuked." You become a speck of sawdust in a fire, with as much separate life and will as you might expect the sawdust to have from the fire. Per C.S. Lewis description of Aslan. "He is Good but Terrible."

Also, as per evolution and elephants and dolphins and potentially aliens and whatnot. There's really nothing in the concept of sapient elephants or aliens that threatens this viewpoint. It is in fact the kind of indirect path you might expect a god with the above agenda to take. If I just poofed into existence like Adam with no memory of parents and no evidence of where I came from, I am only two inches away from the overtly supernatural, which is to say *Him,* his "verbness" over my very existence is nakedly apparent. If, however, you are removed from him by some convoluted history of millions of years of evolution preceded by billions of years of planetary and star formation all perfectly explainable by mundane, repetitive processes, you start feeling quite safe in yourself. You actually have to make a concerted effort to think your way back to something like a creation moment and all that it implies.

And with that, I shall lay off the theology.

When I say deist, I mean that as a minimum baseline. That is the very least I think God put into our creation. From there to personal gods of specific faiths is where the snarl is. I know Jesus Christ existed, he lived, was a man, as much as I can know that anyone ever has. But what do I make of the claims of divinity? Did he walk on water, cure the sick, heal the blind, turn water into wine, rise from the dead? I have no idea, and I never will. Did Moses talk to God through a burning bush and get a code of conduct? Did Allah make Mohammad his prophet and tell him to flee to Africa and build an army to conquer his homeland? Fuck if I know!

Best I can do is apply my reasoning. Miracles and great acts were apparently rife in ye olden times, before consistent written records existed and people still lived in scattered populations. In this age of cameras, not a single indisputable one found. And in fact, man is picking up the tools of creation, and starting to make our own miracles. Is it possible these great things happened only in ancient times, in a very specific part of the world, and all the humans in the Americas, Asia, Africa, Australia, Europe, and the Pacific, weren't included because reasons? Yes. But then I have to ask, why would prophets and salvations only come to the Middle East? Why was China left out? Because God wanted be hands off, give minimal instruction, and let us sort it out and spread the word ourselves? Possible. Because I don't know what or how God works, so who am I to question what seems like illogical actions, which could very easily be humans being humans. And just as easily, all those other people have their faiths and miracles, I just don't know them, and they've probably been eradicated over the course of history, any of them might've been "true miracles." Or they all might've been, and God decided that as humanity progressed and began to link up, to back off, and let it all germinate. Who knows!

So I step back, and say, I'm pretty confident there's a creator that set it all into motion. I think this creator might have played a more direct hand in guiding life on Earth, as opposed to the barren (as far as we know) planets everywhere out there. And then it's possible He could have directly interfered with human cultures at various points to give us a degree of guidance, to work towards a greater end. I don't think it likely He directly fiddles with our relatively (cosmic scale) insignificant, personal issues, because it'd be the end of human progress once someone definitively proves it. Which betrays the purpose of slow-cooking the universe over billions of years to lead to us. But I can't claim to know motivation, because I can only comprehend human motivation and by evolutionary extension, the motivations of Earth life. That said, whatever God there is, feel free to manifest in a comprehensible form in front of me and prove yourself real at any time, and I'd be quite content, and I swear I won't tell anyone about it.

Theology, wooo!

TLDR: Deism is a reasonable, but not certain, minimum to me. More direct action is unclear, possibly unknowable, for reasons you in part cite.

[Vol]

Why the fuck is this Rob Porter guy a national news story? It's most of what I heard on CNN today, and apparently most of what they talked about at the press conference today. The guy was a wifebeater who didn't get charged, only accused, and then some pictures came out and he got booted, as far as I can tell, and I'm confused as to why this is MAJOR BREAKING NEWS.

[TTTX]

Why the fuck is this Rob Porter guy a national news story? It's most of what I heard on CNN today, and apparently most of what they talked about at the press conference today. The guy was a wifebeater who didn't get charged, only accused, and then some pictures came out and he got booted, as far as I can tell, and I'm confused as to why this is MAJOR BREAKING NEWS.

Because we currently live in the era of Social Justice Warriors.

[Mobius_118]

Wife beater doesn't belong in office.

That's not social justice, that's just regular justice.

[Vol]

Wife beaters belong buried under the prison they end up in. I'm an old fashioned guy that way. What office did this brute hold? They never actually said any of this shit during the hours of breathless coverage and round tables, but he's not a senator or anything.

[Mobius_118]

Rob Porter used to be Chief of Staff under Orrin Hatch, and served for a whopping 18 days as a staff secretary under trump.

Nothing but the best and brightest hired by trump, right?

[Mazder]

So this guy was never charged, only accused, and the evidence to show he was a wife beater was one image, which shows a definite black eye along with the explanation of it.
Alongside are examples of his anger being held in check as far as physical violence goes but he was violent and hit walls/glass panes and when he wasn't hitting he was at the very least holding these women roughly and being invasive and being verbally abusive.
From what I've read up most of these have stemmed from Situational Couple Violence and his obvious anger issues.

Now, does that cause grounds for him being relieved of his job? I can't say as there was never a charge, be it by someone else or by one of the wives. As far as I have heard he kept his social and work lives separate and was able to carry on even with these things in his past. So in the very least it sounds like he needs some form of Therapy and Violence control training.

I do wonder why this shit is major breaking news however as this is the meekest form of governmental scandal as it has nothing to do with his performance in government and all to do with his social life.
I mean, not to draw out the Hitler analogy early but it was said that in private the Nazi cunt was kind and gentle mannered. And yet he led one of the greatest atrocities in history, so are we really going to judge private and professional lives as one and the same?

Okay, so Rob porter was a wife beater. He's not been charged but everyone knows about it now. If he got therapy, divorced his wife and set her free and got his anger issues dealt with would that be fair enough for him to eventually return to office? I'm not saying in 6 months or a year I'm meaning in, like, 5 years. Is that possible for him to reform?

[TTTX]

Wife beater doesn't belong in office.

That's not social justice, that's just regular justice.

Last I checked he wasn't charge with said crime yet anyway.

But never the less it's not breaking news, because someone beats their spouses.

[Raga]

Yea, I'm pretty good with the "no wife beaters in office" rule. Along with "no pedophiles in office" and also "no overt racists in office" (I'm thinking like bonafide white supremacists and such).

What's irritating about the news is that it's correct that he has no business serving in a position of authority in government, but that's not why they are reporting on it. They don't actually care about his wife, but merely the political opportunity he presents.

Regardless, he can sit out on the trash heap with Roy Moore and more the better.

Also, this: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... rs/552845/

Which I actually think is good for democrats. Now that they have somewhat stopped running around like their hair is on fire, they can focus on, you know, policy, which is how they will actually beat Trump. They were never going to beat him by miming Chicken Little.

[Raga]

Speaking of the problems with Chicken Little tactics, when you spend so much time calling everybody right of Nancy Pelosi a Nazi, you are left rhetorically bankrupt when actual Nazis show up: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... is/552758/

Calling this guy a Nazi is borderline trite now even though he's the precisely the place where the word should have been saved and rolled out for maximum effect.

Also, since it's Illinois Nazis, obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8

[Mobius_118]

So this guy was never charged, only accused, and the evidence to show he was a wife beater was one image, which shows a definite black eye along with the explanation of it.
Alongside are examples of his anger being held in check as far as physical violence goes but he was violent and hit walls/glass panes and when he wasn't hitting he was at the very least holding these women roughly and being invasive and being verbally abusive.
From what I've read up most of these have stemmed from Situational Couple Violence and his obvious anger issues.

Now, does that cause grounds for him being relieved of his job? I can't say as there was never a charge, be it by someone else or by one of the wives. As far as I have heard he kept his social and work lives separate and was able to carry on even with these things in his past. So in the very least it sounds like he needs some form of Therapy and Violence control training.

I do wonder why this shit is major breaking news however as this is the meekest form of governmental scandal as it has nothing to do with his performance in government and all to do with his social life.
I mean, not to draw out the Hitler analogy early but it was said that in private the Nazi cunt was kind and gentle mannered. And yet he led one of the greatest atrocities in history, so are we really going to judge private and professional lives as one and the same?

Okay, so Rob porter was a wife beater. He's not been charged but everyone knows about it now. If he got therapy, divorced his wife and set her free and got his anger issues dealt with would that be fair enough for him to eventually return to office? I'm not saying in 6 months or a year I'm meaning in, like, 5 years. Is that possible for him to reform?

Wife beater doesn't belong in office.

That's not social justice, that's just regular justice.

Last I checked he wasn't charge with said crime yet anyway.

But never the less it's not breaking news, because someone beats their spouses.

Never helped abuse victims, have you? Domestic violence rarely results in a charge, jailtime, or even a slap on the wrist.

Same thing with rape. Most victims don't even report it because of victim blaming.

Now, Porter has set up a pattern of abuse. He shouldn't be anywhere near a government job. That's a fucking guideline in any government job.

Army? Yeah this memo has been in effect for a long time. First sign of any domestics the soldier is thrown in the barracks for 72 hours.

Federal Inter-Agency guideline.

It's not up for debate. Guy beats his wife, beat his previous wife. Victims are afraid to come forward because "SURPRISE" victims don't want to step forward and cause more problems. That's a part of being an abuse victim. You're afraid to say anything and get more beatings.

I have no idea why you two would almost immediately push it aside, when Porter's conduct is a symptom of a dysfunctional administration.

[TTTX]

Never helped abuse victims, have you? Domestic violence rarely results in a charge, jailtime, or even a slap on the wrist.

Same thing with rape. Most victims don't even report it because of victim blaming.

Now, Porter has set up a pattern of abuse. He shouldn't be anywhere near a government job. That's a fucking guideline in any government job.

Army? Yeah this memo has been in effect for a long time. First sign of any domestics the soldier is thrown in the barracks for 72 hours.

Federal Inter-Agency guideline.

It's not up for debate. Guy beats his wife, beat his previous wife. Victims are afraid to come forward because "SURPRISE" victims don't want to step forward and cause more problems. That's a part of being an abuse victim. You're afraid to say anything and get more beatings.

I have no idea why you two would almost immediately push it aside, when Porter's conduct is a symptom of a dysfunctional administration.

I have been one and no one cared outside my family about it.

well that and there are people who accuse people of during horrible things that turn out not to be true.

Being a victim, also means that you'll most likely suffer issues for the rest of your life or a good portion of it, even if you managed to get out of terrible relationship like that and not everyone is ready to face such a challenge.

Porter's domestic abuse obviously started well before the so called "dysfunctional" administration was even a thing and is more of symptom of some kind of mental issue inside Porter himself that should have been dealt with many years ago.

[Mazder]

Never helped abuse victims, have you? Domestic violence rarely results in a charge, jailtime, or even a slap on the wrist.

Same thing with rape. Most victims don't even report it because of victim blaming.

Now, Porter has set up a pattern of abuse. He shouldn't be anywhere near a government job. That's a fucking guideline in any government job.

Army? Yeah this memo has been in effect for a long time. First sign of any domestics the soldier is thrown in the barracks for 72 hours.

Federal Inter-Agency guideline.

It's not up for debate. Guy beats his wife, beat his previous wife. Victims are afraid to come forward because "SURPRISE" victims don't want to step forward and cause more problems. That's a part of being an abuse victim. You're afraid to say anything and get more beatings.

I have no idea why you two would almost immediately push it aside, when Porter's conduct is a symptom of a dysfunctional administration.

Hey i am not saying he shouldn't be fired, merely the means on finding out the reason for. In this case it made public light, and while no charge has been placed all that was needed was accusation.

What I am debating moreso is reform and therapy for both abused and abuser. Isn't that what mental health is all about? Trying to find what went wrong and made this person like he is?
If there is a shred of being able to find out the source of what made him a monster should that not be explored to find the warning signs for other sufferers of abuse?

Again as far as I can see as far as "the administration" goes he kept his work and private life as secret as possible. The only way the administration can be called into question is in hindsight. You can't say "the administration is bad because it has a bad person in it when we found out he was bad once it finally came out after years of keeping it secret through multiple levels of office", which is at least 3 levels by my count.

Yeah he's a cunt.
Yeah he should be fired.
Yeah you should look into at least trying to detangle his mindset for future victim's sake (and if that reforms him along the way that's an additional good).
Yeah the current administration is bad, but you can't use him as a marker for it when he's keeping this as much a secret from those choosing him for the position he had as he was the general public. Unless you're suggesting a corroboration leading through the entire government, which if that is the case then you'd need something more than a few accusations in a domestic violence case to break that type of seal of control they'd have over their own secrets.

Final note:
Rob is a cunt, should be fired, should be put through as much therapy as punishment for the sake of future victim's and preventing their plight by finding the source in the very least and hope for reform and reparations from him if possible.

[Vol]

Washington state is implementing automatic voter registration, so you have to opt-out to not be on the rolls. That seems like a terrible idea, as much of anything that the government demands you be automatically included in is.

Front page of the local paper is the new governor's various campaign promises.
-Restrict guns even more somehow
-Create a state bank
-Tax the rich more
-Get rid of non-clean energy
-Improve public transit
-Free daycare for toddlers
-$15 an hour minimum wage
-Liberal equality talking points
-Free community college
-Prevent development of open space
-Tax credits for daycare and caregivers
-Free addiction treatment
-Guaranteed sick leave
-More abortions
-And so on

Which is quite a hefty list of goals. More so if you consider that the state is financially boned from the massive pensions it promised people for the rest of their fucking lives, the terrible infrastructure that just warranted a big gas tax to even begin to address, the sky-high property tax (Highest in the nation!) rate, and the people fleeing to PA and other states to not put up with this shit anymore. And that's without getting into the actual economy and violence and poverty. Wonder how he'll pull all that off! Oh and the new federal tax plan caps the deduction for property tax at $10k, gosh, wonder what that'll do.

The MSM is fawning over North Korea. They run literal concentration camps, are a rogue state with nukes, and have an absolute dictatorship of brutality we associate with Communism/Nazism, but hey, Kim Jong Un's sister is pretty and their cheerleading section was nice.

Fun fact: It is significantly difficult for a non-senior male to receive testosterone replacement therapy, even if their bloodwork comes up below the low-normal range. Doctors can bend over backwards, running a battery of tests for everything else possible, and even then, refusing it. Whereas a woman seeking estrogen, no problem. A woman seeking testosterone? Hell, our society's actively retooling to encourage it, and vice-versa. But a biological male on the low end wanting a little more T in their step? Verboten. Funny, that. Also funny how the average t-levels have been falling in western men, and how sperm count as cratered, and how the birth rate among western men has dropped, and how traditional masculinity is being attacked and punished, and how little boys are being drugged and molded to not be like little boys, and how in 2 generations we've gone from patriarchs to soyboys. Not to imply there is any planned effort behind all this, but if your goal was to spiritually castrate men and create societies of docile eunuchs who're just smart enough to work the computers, only consume what's socially popular, question nothing from on high, and applaud replenishing the ranks with easily exploitable immigrants, you'd be well on track.

That's my tinfoil hat observation for the day. Obviously more nuanced than "shadowy conspiracy to destroy western men," but FUCK IT LOL

[DarkStorm]

Washington state is implementing automatic voter registration, so you have to opt-out to not be on the rolls. That seems like a terrible idea, as much of anything that the government demands you be automatically included in is.

Front page of the local paper is the new governor's various campaign promises.
-Restrict guns even more somehow
-Create a state bank
-Tax the rich more
-Get rid of non-clean energy
-Improve public transit
-Free daycare for toddlers
-$15 an hour minimum wage
-Liberal equality talking points
-Free community college
-Prevent development of open space
-Tax credits for daycare and caregivers
-Free addiction treatment
-Guaranteed sick leave
-More abortions
-And so on

Which is quite a hefty list of goals. More so if you consider that the state is financially boned from the massive pensions it promised people for the rest of their fucking lives, the terrible infrastructure that just warranted a big gas tax to even begin to address, the sky-high property tax (Highest in the nation!) rate, and the people fleeing to PA and other states to not put up with this shit anymore. And that's without getting into the actual economy and violence and poverty. Wonder how he'll pull all that off! Oh and the new federal tax plan caps the deduction for property tax at $10k, gosh, wonder what that'll do.

The MSM is fawning over North Korea. They run literal concentration camps, are a rogue state with nukes, and have an absolute dictatorship of brutality we associate with Communism/Nazism, but hey, Kim Jong Un's sister is pretty and their cheerleading section was nice.

Fun fact: It is significantly difficult for a non-senior male to receive testosterone replacement therapy, even if their bloodwork comes up below the low-normal range. Doctors can bend over backwards, running a battery of tests for everything else possible, and even then, refusing it. Whereas a woman seeking estrogen, no problem. A woman seeking testosterone? Hell, our society's actively retooling to encourage it, and vice-versa. But a biological male on the low end wanting a little more T in their step? Verboten. Funny, that. Also funny how the average t-levels have been falling in western men, and how sperm count as cratered, and how the birth rate among western men has dropped, and how traditional masculinity is being attacked and punished, and how little boys are being drugged and molded to not be like little boys, and how in 2 generations we've gone from patriarchs to soyboys. Not to imply there is any planned effort behind all this, but if your goal was to spiritually castrate men and create societies of docile eunuchs who're just smart enough to work the computers, only consume what's socially popular, question nothing from on high, and applaud replenishing the ranks with easily exploitable immigrants, you'd be well on track.

That's my tinfoil hat observation for the day. Obviously more nuanced than "shadowy conspiracy to destroy western men," but FUCK IT LOL

Most of those are gonna make taxes ungodly high, and people are already in debt so they dont have money to spare.

[Mobius_118]

Washington state is implementing automatic voter registration, so you have to opt-out to not be on the rolls. That seems like a terrible idea, as much of anything that the government demands you be automatically included in is.

Front page of the local paper is the new governor's various campaign promises.
-Restrict guns even more somehow
-Create a state bank
-Tax the rich more
-Get rid of non-clean energy
-Improve public transit
-Free daycare for toddlers
-$15 an hour minimum wage
-Liberal equality talking points
-Free community college
-Prevent development of open space
-Tax credits for daycare and caregivers
-Free addiction treatment
-Guaranteed sick leave
-More abortions
-And so on

Which is quite a hefty list of goals. More so if you consider that the state is financially boned from the massive pensions it promised people for the rest of their fucking lives, the terrible infrastructure that just warranted a big gas tax to even begin to address, the sky-high property tax (Highest in the nation!) rate, and the people fleeing to PA and other states to not put up with this shit anymore. And that's without getting into the actual economy and violence and poverty. Wonder how he'll pull all that off! Oh and the new federal tax plan caps the deduction for property tax at $10k, gosh, wonder what that'll do.

Most of those are gonna make taxes ungodly high, and people are already in debt so they dont have money to spare.

Works in Nordic countries.

[DarkStorm]

Guess they have money to spare then.

[Mobius_118]

Honestly I'd pay higher taxes if that meant taxes went to education, healthcare, and the things it already funds.

Shit, what we're doing now isn't working, especially when life saving medications are price jacked because the CEO's felt like it.

[TTTX]

Guess they have money to spare then.

We get benefits, like being able to go to the doctor without it costing an arm, a leg and several internal organs.

[DarkStorm]

Guess they have money to spare then.

We get benefits, like being able to go to the doctor without it costing an arm, a leg and several internal organs.

But are you in debt? Because 99.9% of americans are.

[TTTX]

But are you in debt? Because 99.9% of americans are.

some are.

[DarkStorm]

But are you in debt? Because 99.9% of americans are.

some are.

Some, which isnt many.

In american you kinda have to get into debt to get a credit score and improve it if you want to buy anything expensive like a house. It kinda how the system is built. Its built by debt.

[TTTX]

Some, which isnt many.

In american you kinda have to get into debt to get a credit score and improve it if you want to buy anything expensive like a house. It kinda how the system is built. Its built by debt.

that sounds rather idiotic to me.

[DarkStorm]

-Restrict guns even more somehow
Good lord who knows, but it won't stop people who dont care about the law.

-Create a state bank
I don't trust banks as it is, so this can be ify.

-Tax the rich more
K, still wont fix everything.

-Get rid of non-clean energy
Great so shut down and entire industry and lay off millions of workers so we have a bunch of jobless people.

-Improve public transit
Cool, more taxes please.

-Free daycare for toddlers
Great, more taxes please.

-$15 an hour minimum wage
Encourage the large demographic of men not going to college because they afraid of being called a rapist and etc, to definitely not go to college because they have a 15$ hr job now.

-Liberal equality talking points
Don't care about your feelings and your pronouns grow a pair and a spine.

-Free community college
Cool, more taxes please.

-Prevent development of open space
Problem with this is our population in general, if we keep growing we are gonna keep expanding. You can only stop this for so long.

-Tax credits for daycare and caregivers
I think that is fair.

-Free addiction treatment
Cool, more taxes please.

-Guaranteed sick leave
I agree with this if you are sick dont fucking come to work cunt.

-More abortions
Since children are expensive and you have a hard time supporting yourself probably for the best but a condom is probably a better option.

[DarkStorm]

Some, which isnt many.

In american you kinda have to get into debt to get a credit score and improve it if you want to buy anything expensive like a house. It kinda how the system is built. Its built by debt.

that sounds rather idiotic to me.

Cause it is and there is no easy fix.

[TTTX]

Cause it is and there is no easy fix.

When it comes to politics, there rarely is.

[Mobius_118]

A big chunk of the debt is medical and student loan debt, both of which can be handled almost immediately by taking the wall money and paying off the student/medical debt.

Then increase taxes to actually pay for college and cover everyone concerning medical. That would handle the debt.

[Mazder]

A big chunk of the debt is medical and student loan debt, both of which can be handled almost immediately by taking the wall money and paying off the student/medical debt.

Then increase taxes to actually pay for college and cover everyone concerning medical. That would handle the debt.

That would work for about one maybe two years before that shit would go back to being privatized.
What you really need to do is fix the culture differential of "trade jobs" vs "college degrees" being the only way to earn a living. Plus on the side of medical care you really need to address the lobbyists abilities to buy out your system before you can even begin to touch the point of how to redistribute stuff towards paying off healthcare. A decent chunk will have to come from Military budgets.

[Mobius_118]

Well yeah. The F35 program is a bust, we already have a superior stealth fighter. Even the F22 is a conditional fighter, getting beat out by the F-15 in strike capability.

Our military is easily the best in the world. Stealth ships, stealth planes are a novelty at best, and we need to stop focusing so much on innovating the expensive shit that never gets used.

We could take on the world and probably win. It'd be a pyrrhic victory, but still. We need to better work with our allies so the burden of cost isn't so damn high.

[DarkStorm]

Why would they do that? That would mean they would have less money. And no one wants less money.

[Mazder]

Well we need to build up the mil;itaries of the allies so we're not so damn reliant on the USA for everything.
PLus if we weren't AS uniform we'd be doing a lot better as TBH fuck relying on the USA's tech for everything. We've already ruined the Queen Elizabeth to have it housing F35's.....I'd rather have the damn Harrier back than that shit.

[Raga]

@ stuff about falling sperm counts

Most likely caused by prenatal chemical exposure to some as yet unidentified harmful chemical or series of chemicals probably exacerbated by terrible diet, obesity, and lack of exercise. That sharp a downturn in such a short period of time pretty much has to come from some chemical stress as the only sorts of environmental stressors that produce genetic or epigenetic outcomes that dramatic that fast tend to be on the "Dutch Hunger Winter" scale. The reason I point this out is because it's almost certainly *not* caused by the "feminization" of society or whatever other pseudo-psychological reasons. To be clear, I'm not saying you are claiming that specifically, but I have seen people claim this with a straight face.

@ stuff about military spending

Yea, the US could do well to spend less on military stuff, but it's straight up not true that we could fund the kind of social programs most people have in mind just by cutting military spending. http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/l/1 ... g&s=47xnQz National Defense spending? 15% Assorted social safety net stuff? 64% And that's what we are paying right now. 2/3 of the budget already goes towards social programs. That number waxes and wanes depending on year, but the overall trend remains the same. We pay way more for social programs than for national defense.

That being said, one of our more expensive military undertakings are assorted foreign excursions and general price-tag of policing the world. Some of this would be alleviated if NATO partners would just step up and spend 2% of GP like they are supposed to. Sort this by military expenditures by GDP for 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_st ... penditures You do and you will see there a grand total of 6 NATO states that are actually spending as much as they are supposed to. And besides us and Britain, 4 of those 6 are Eastern European countries who can probably barely afford it.

Where is rich ass Germany sitting? At 1.19%. Meanwhile, as per this: http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/05/23/nat ... -atlantic/ 53% of Germans do not support defending a NATO ally if Russia attacks that ally. So, yea. Capable of paying and perfectly fine with sitting inside the security blanket formed by everybody else paying, but not willing to pay. You want to know why "America First" foreign policy sells? Our allies doing stuff like that is a nontrivial contributing factor.

[Vol]

@ stuff about falling sperm counts

Most likely caused by prenatal chemical exposure to some as yet unidentified harmful chemical or series of chemicals probably exacerbated by terrible diet, obesity, and lack of exercise. That sharp a downturn in such a short period of time pretty much has to come from some chemical stress as the only sorts of environmental stressors that produce genetic or epigenetic outcomes that dramatic that fast tend to be on the "Dutch Hunger Winter" scale. The reason I point this out is because it's almost certainly *not* caused by the "feminization" of society or whatever other pseudo-psychological reasons. To be clear, I'm not saying you are claiming that specifically, but I have seen people claim this with a straight face.

I'm inclined to think it's almost entirely lifestyle which then leads to chemical factors, given how radically lifestyle has changed in a very short amount of time. Life of a Roman farmer closer to an American farmer than an American farmer to his grandson, etc. Though I'm a case study in the genetic factor, as by lifestyle, I should've been an early blossoming he-man, and boy was that not the case.

Though I do find the "soyboy" meme interesting in more than the immediate comedy value. It tickles the brain, because there clearly is _something_ biological happening to western men, and while sperm count isn't visible unless you're a bukkake aficionado with gimlet eyes, there's a collective awareness, at least among a certain crowd, that we're "off." Almost assuredly not soy, but it works as a handy example to make a point and dig deeper.

People claim that the abstract idea of the de-masculanization of society has led to the physical loss of testosterone and sperm in men directly?

[Mobius_118]

With that, there are studies pointing out that female birth control, the pill, has been seeping into the water supply because the meds don't dissolve all the way when it's going through a womans system.

That filters down into the watershed, we drink water. Men become whiny little sacks of pathetic.

Then again, this is along the lines of estrogen being used to make livestock grow in a short time, and that estrogen is in our food. What does estrogen do to men? Makes them more feminine.

[Raga]

@Vol

Nobody I take seriously has said it but I've totally seen people in places like news comment sections and random crap forums say such things.

@ Mobius

They actually mess with female psychology and chemistry too. They screw with libido at the least and can increase chances of cancer and heart attacks and such. It's very much a double-edged sword. On the one hand humans having control over their fertility has been a major boon but it's sort of like our abundant food supply today. Sure nobody starves for the most part in developed countries but we also have issues with obesity and diseases that were unknown in ancient times. For every problem we solve we seem to invent a new one.

[Vol]

With that, there are studies pointing out that female birth control, the pill, has been seeping into the water supply because the meds don't dissolve all the way when it's going through a womans system.

That filters down into the watershed, we drink water. Men become whiny little sacks of pathetic.

Then again, this is along the lines of estrogen being used to make livestock grow in a short time, and that estrogen is in our food. What does estrogen do to men? Makes them more feminine.

That'd be a starting point, for sure. We're all on way too many drugs, and God knows what effect that has on the waste cycle. Though diet is fucking us up too, way too much sugar and salt, not enough fats, obesity fucks with hormone levels. We're at 74% of the population as overweight, around fucking 40% as obese. That right there could explain it, men aren't meant to be carrying around that much fat and moving so little.

Semi-related, Trump's budget calls for changing up SNAP so anyone above $90 a month in benefits would instead received a box of American grown staples. Rice, beans, peanut butter, veggies, powdered milk, meat (in some form), and so on, instead of straight up cash for food. This has roughly no chance of ever happening, for a number of reasons, but I'm undecided if the idea is good or not. On one hand, if you're on the dole, why should you get to choose the kind of government cheese you eat? On the other, if someone doesn't like the food they get, they're fucked. On the other, it'd saved $250,000,000,000+ over a decade. On the other, it might screw over children who rely on the cheap, shitty, high calorie foods to get through life. On the other, there should be roughly 0 obese people on foodstamps, and yet. So I'm conflicted, like with so many subjects. But it's not going through, the whining would be biblical, so it's all academic.

Unrelated: https://www.autostraddle.com/the-pacifi ... da-408954/

I like to understand how people think, and this woman is in so many ways my opposite. I suspect she'd loathe me and I'd greatly dislike her if we ever met. Her way of thinking is so alien to mine, and mildly insulting, that I found her stupid article about why it's not her fault that as a fat lesbian with no hiking experience she couldn't finish a 2500+ mile trail on the first shot, to be worth reading. Because in a cold, objective sense, she matters more than I do to the country. Understanding, folks, it's painful, so painful, sometimes. But vital.

[DarkStorm]

Semi-related, Trump's budget calls for changing up SNAP so anyone above $90 a month in benefits would instead received a box of American grown staples. Rice, beans, peanut butter, veggies, powdered milk, meat (in some form), and so on, instead of straight up cash for food. This has roughly no chance of ever happening, for a number of reasons, but I'm undecided if the idea is good or not. On one hand, if you're on the dole, why should you get to choose the kind of government cheese you eat? On the other, if someone doesn't like the food they get, they're fucked. On the other, it'd saved $250,000,000,000+ over a decade. On the other, it might screw over children who rely on the cheap, shitty, high calorie foods to get through life. On the other, there should be roughly 0 obese people on foodstamps, and yet. So I'm conflicted, like with so many subjects. But it's not going through, the whining would be biblical, so it's all academic.

.

Because they usually end up buying booze and cigarettes. Plus they end up somehow getting lobster and Filet mignon.

[Raga]

@SNAP cuts thing

I generally support this. My only hesitation is that boxed and processed foods are high in sodium and preservatives and so on and can cause all kinds of health problems of their own. I think it should at least still include money for fresh fruit and vegetables and not just canned ones. I'm not really upset about the prospect of people not being able to buy coke and ice cream with the benefits though.

@Pacific Crest Trail stuff

I think this woman is dumb and sort of asking for it for bringing up hotbed issues with random strangers in the wilderness, and yet I actually *do* kinda get where she is coming from. To be clear, I am currently majorly out of shape because I work a desk job in the city, but I grew up in the country, love the outdoors, and when I'm in the country I *love* hiking, hunting, scrambling, bird watching, and just general wandering around in the woods looking at the sights. I totally get where this chick is coming from. Two particular examples stand out for me:

1. One was in college on a trip to India. I hiked up Mt. Triund. This is not a strenous hike - 6ish miles one way with a very well developed trail and Triund is more of a glorified hill than a mountain anyway. The professor who was overseeing our trip didn't make the hike because he went every year and so we were just given the directive "stay together." I am not in India to score bragging points back home that I hiked up some "mountain" that's not even high enough to have snow on it. I'm here to take pictures of fucking landscapes and spin the prayer wheels and shit. However, pace for the group gets set by the brodudest brodude in it who *does* want to be able to claim he climbed a "mountain" in the Himalayas in 2 hours or whatever. Rest of the group just fell in line with him because we "have to stay together." I got so put out with this dude that I finally just said to hell with it and fell back and went my own pace and I'm really glad I did. My memories of this would probably be utterly tainted otherwise.

2. I hiked Half Dome day trail in 2012 (along with a bunch of other day trails) because I had an internship at Yosemite National Park that summer. This is like a 14ish mile round trip hike and much more strenuous. At the end of this hike, you have to scale up this like, I dunno, 45 degree bald granite slope to the top of the dome along this: https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3049/2891 ... b322_b.jpg
Now, it's summer and it's hot (can hit upper 90s in Yosemite) so I'm sweaty and I'm pacing myself because I just hiked 6ish miles uphill and I'm pulling myself up this baldass slope with crap footing from umpteen bajillion people wearing the rock smooth. So I'm periodically wiping sweat out of my eyes, generally taking slow measured steps to make sure my footing is good, and I probably look tired because it's strenuous, etc. Dude behind me (some generically fit "hiker" type) spends literally the whole way up exasperatedly asking me "Are you alright?" "Can you make it?" "Do you want to go back down?" I never said it but I really wanted to yell "Dude, I'm *fine!* I'm just incapable of and also have no desire to go at 6 foot 2 pro track dude speeds!

That's a windy couple of anecdotes, but the point is basically that the issue isn't with fitness or lack thereof, but more in the assumption that the *only* reason somebody might be engaging in an activity that requires X amount of fitness is because fitness/competition is *the* goal unto itself. I was physically fit when I made those hikes, but I took my time anyway because I wasn't doing them to prove my fitness. I got sufficiently fit in order to do them. Fitness was a prerequisite. Not the goal.

[Mobius_118]

Problem with getting rid of SNAP and having an actual government ration, is when your ration doesn't come, what do?

I know poor white folk are the biggest recipients of food stamps. Elderly receive food stamps as well. Trusting the GOP to concoct a ration plan is like trusting a fox with your chickens.

[Vol]

Because they usually end up buying booze and cigarettes. Plus they end up somehow getting lobster and Filet mignon.

And here I am, buying things with my own money like a chump.

Problem with getting rid of SNAP and having an actual government ration, is when your ration doesn't come, what do?

I know poor white folk are the biggest recipients of food stamps. Elderly receive food stamps as well. Trusting the GOP to concoct a ration plan is like trusting a fox with your chickens.

The gist seems to be "shelf life," powdered milk, canned goods, rice, beans, etc. So I'd imagine unless you go through your ration, you'd have foodstuffs that'd last years. But if you do eat it all and the next is late, dunno.

So if there's over 115,000,000 _households_ in America, and SNAP is given to over 40,000,000 _people_, and 74% of the population is overweight, that the number of people who are at risk of actual starvation if a ration is late is incredibly low. But all the same, I wouldn't trust the government to move a cup of water from point a to point b without spilling it, so yeah.

*personal experiences*

Then you're someone I can ask. I understand the mindset, of you and that woman, what your goals were, and that's fine and good. I would quite like to take leisurely hikes around the country, and world, before I hit my twilight years. If I could afford the time to prepare and go, I'd be theoretically willing to do the Appalachian Trail even.

Why does this misconception bother you, and by extension the writer of that article? I'm putting myself in that scenario, and my first thought is to explain the situation and assert my goal, "I'm here for the view, man, you go ahead, I'll catch up," or, "I'm fine, just taking my time, I'll yell if I need help." However, I am a 6'6" man, so I'm afforded some innate status here. So is the issue that the presumption of a competitiveness is physically insulting? Or is it a gendered "thing" I'm not grasping? Or is it not recognizing the existence of valid pursuits other than ones they assume, as I just did with this trio of questions?

[Vol]

Another judge ruled that allowing DACA to expire simply must not be and issue a preliminary injunction. How the fuck the judiciary has the authority to demand untested executive actions on immigration be forced to continue, which would require Trump physically renewing a previous president's EO, is a really good question. Because it smells like usurpation.

And the media's jerking off into their faces about the Stormy Daniels woman again. Apparently one of Trump's longtime lawyers paid her the $130k out of pocket and was never reimbursed, now it's news again. Been awake 30 minutes and already I'm wishing the media would go all The Happening on itself.

[DarkStorm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VvgqgaTt_M

[Raga]

Why does this misconception bother you, and by extension the writer of that article? I'm putting myself in that scenario, and my first thought is to explain the situation and assert my goal, "I'm here for the view, man, you go ahead, I'll catch up," or, "I'm fine, just taking my time, I'll yell if I need help." However, I am a 6'6" man, so I'm afforded some innate status here. So is the issue that the presumption of a competitiveness is physically insulting? Or is it a gendered "thing" I'm not grasping? Or is it not recognizing the existence of valid pursuits other than ones they assume, as I just did with this trio of questions?

It's about inserting other people into some competitive pecking order when they never asked to be inserted into it. Because that's the problem with making an activity that isn't inherently competitive into a competitive activity. Some activities are inherently competitive: chess, hockey, marathons, pro gaming, whatever. Anybody who gets into those activities presumably knows that and expects for some of the worth of the activity to come from measuring yourself against the prowess of other people. But there is no such inherent quality in a lot of activities, including plenty of traditionally "masculine" ones. Another one of those I participate in is hunting. There is literally 0 inherent competition in hunting. I don't even have to ever interact with other people at all to hunt. When you insist on bringing an element of competition into one of these: fishing, hiking, or whatever, you must immediately answer the question "competing against whom?" That question answers itself with an inherently competitive activity: the other team/guy who wants to compete with me for either of us to be able to do this at all. But when you do it in other activities and you don't find other people of like mind to come along with you, you basically have no choice but to use random strangers as your "competition" whether they want that or not.

It's as annoying as if some random ass always asked random people for their credit score or their salary or their height or incessantly talked about his own "stats" in a bid to get you to reveal yours so he can compare himself to you.

I never signed up to be random asshole's scoreboard for his own sense of worth, superiority, dominance or whatever. Simply asserting yourself as not being interested would be great if the guy takes a hint and goes on, but some guys won't take a hint because they have built their own personal sense of enjoyment and worth in the activity in being better than somebody else and as such they are constantly and aggressively looking for somebody (usually multiple somebodies) to be better than.

To be clear, there are perfectly reasonable, non-invasive ways that people can talk about this stuff. The question "when did you start" is not inherently indicative of anything and is a pretty sensible conversation starter between two people on a hiking trail. A lot depends on *why* that sort of question gets asked though, which is often revealed by other context.

[Raga]

Another judge ruled that allowing DACA to expire simply must not be and issue a preliminary injunction. How the fuck the judiciary has the authority to demand untested executive actions on immigration be forced to continue, which would require Trump physically renewing a previous president's EO, is a really good question. Because it smells like usurpation.

They don't have the authority. It would get slung out by a higher court but that process takes months to years. Lower court judges are increasingly using decisions they know they don't have to right to make to bog down or slow down processes they happen not to like in hopes the other side will give up or that they can wait it out until a legislature or executive more amenable to their particular ideology is in place. Both the right and the left do this, but the left is more guilty overall. The right's favorite tactic for pushing their agenda is throwing random crap laws at the local and state level at the wall trying to get something to stick. That's their general tactic on anti-abortion measures among other things.

[Raga]

Out of curiosity, do people who can't speak English piss you off (insert whatever is the main language of your country for English for the same question)?

I used to say I didn't care. I increasingly do care. I've got to a point where I will expend like only 25% effort to help people who can't/won't speak English who come in where I work (public library).

The other group I only expend like 25% effort to help is anybody with grotesque amounts of computer illiteracy who is younger than like 65 and thus has no excuse.

If it's a combination of these two, my effort drops to like 5%.

*Three post obsessive limit*

[Mobius_118]

Nah, language barriers aren't a big deal for me. I've been exposed to so many different cultures that if there's Spanglish going on I can follow along.

What gets me is willful ignorance, mainly having to do with people who listen and post fake news as truth, despite their source and story being debunked long ago.

[Vol]

There was a big school shooting in Florida today. The suspect was taken alive, Hispanic name, but looks white apparently. Naturally the 4 places I checked for updates on the situation were primarily about if Hispanic white = Anglo white, how we need gun control, how leftists will try to use this to push for gun control, how we need armed teachers, and how scummy the MSM was for trying to get live updates from children cowering in classrooms during the shooting.

On one hand, it's about time America was honest about how the victims and "the bodies are still warm" doesn't matter when political points can be scored. On the other, it makes my soul weary.

Edit: Tweets not on their account as far as I can tell, so it might be a fake, but this person doesn't seem nearly important enough to warrant a gag edit like this. But the screenshot is like parsley to my point anyway.

[Mobius_118]

GOP voted to allow the mentally ill to buy firearms.

While the shooter in Florida wasn't mentally ill per se, he was demonstrating extreme sociopathic or even psychopathic tendencies. Maybe loosening gun control standards was a fucking dumb idea.

[Mazder]

Out of curiosity, do people who can't speak English piss you off (insert whatever is the main language of your country for English for the same question)?

I used to say I didn't care. I increasingly do care. I've got to a point where I will expend like only 25% effort to help people who can't/won't speak English who come in where I work (public library).

The other group I only expend like 25% effort to help is anybody with grotesque amounts of computer illiteracy who is younger than like 65 and thus has no excuse.

If it's a combination of these two, my effort drops to like 5%.

*Three post obsessive limit*

If they're my friends, or someone I'd like to get to know of I am pretty tolerant. Accent thickness is really the main issue but that usually goes away with practice. That being said I have gone through the following accents/countries of origin and found pretty competent English speakers: Swedish, Danish, Flemmish, French, Spanish, Dutch, German, Finnish, Croatian, Russian, Latvian (actually this was the only really troubling one because they didn't know much, but what they did know they knew well and knew how to translate, they were obviously practicing....although why they were in England I could not have guessed, at least in my town anyway), Hungarian, Romanian, Indian, Pakistani, Italian and Iraqi.

While at work I am slightly less patient but I force myself through it because it's my job.
If I meet someone who just plain refuses to speak english and expect me to understand them I feel less inclined to help them. Or if they bark single word instructions.
Mind you I am also of the mindset of "If you got o that country learn some native language with you, or bring some form of translation material". I mean for crying out loud we have google translate on our phones (potentially) for a lot of us so there is no excuse to not at least try!

In terms of computer literacy....I have enough trouble with that at home with dad so I tend to not be around when others need help.

Nah, language barriers aren't a big deal for me. I've been exposed to so many different cultures that if there's Spanglish going on I can follow along.

What gets me is willful ignorance, mainly having to do with people who listen and post fake news as truth, despite their source and story being debunked long ago.

Well when it comes to debunking you really have to find someone on their side to debunk it, otherwise they'd never listen, doesn't matter which side is doing it. It's all a "if you're not with me you're against me" shitshow.

*snip*

There was a big school shooting in Florida today. The suspect was taken alive, Hispanic name, but looks white apparently. Naturally the 4 places I checked for updates on the situation were primarily about if Hispanic white = Anglo white, how we need gun control, how leftists will try to use this to push for gun control, how we need armed teachers, and how scummy the MSM was for trying to get live updates from children cowering in classrooms during the shooting.

On one hand, it's about time America was honest about how the victims and "the bodies are still warm" doesn't matter when political points can be scored. On the other, it makes my soul weary.

Edit: Tweets not on their account as far as I can tell, so it might be a fake, but this person doesn't seem nearly important enough to warrant a gag edit like this. But the screenshot is like parsley to my point anyway.

Yeah, 17 dead I heard last.
A damned shame.

GOP voted to allow the mentally ill to buy firearms.

While the shooter in Florida wasn't mentally ill per se, he was demonstrating extreme sociopathic or even psychopathic tendencies. Maybe loosening gun control standards was a fucking dumb idea.

Loosening them, yes.
Doesn't mean that the entire set of laws surrounding mental health don't need revising. Because they absolutely do. In some states just having been to see a therapist could put you on the "no guns allowed list" if some people had their way.


I mean psychopathy, for example, doesn't necessarily mean "fuck all these people, I'mma shoot them because I don't care". It sometime manifests in seemingly normal people. I mean

"...characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy, impaired remorse, bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits..."

sounds like half the people I've ever met.