Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Raga]

Trump will be meeting with Kim Jong Un at some point before May, according to South Korea, owing to the US pressure campaign. Kim has pledged to halt nuclear testing until the, and understands our joint exercises with SK will continue.

This makes me supremely suspicious of the whole thing because I doubt the pressure campaign had anything to do with it. It seems to be rather puerile flattery used by South Korea because Trump is apparently susceptible to that. While I don't think South Korea has any particular desire to screw us over to the benefit of North Korea, it can't help but fill me with trepidation if they only managed to entice to North Korea to talks with something like "Come on! He's a vain push over anyway."

We'll see.

[Raga]

Yet. Nobody has yet to proclaimed to put any tariffs on those. But that will happen eventually, if things do end up to "trade war". And it's not that everyone thinks tariffs on steel or aluminum causes trade war. People are scared that it could lead to tariffs added to various items, just because countries keep one upping others or response others tariffs by adding their own to items that are important to this other country.

Also, other countries hasn't really talked about their own tariffs yet because they have either "wait and see" policy going, waiting to see how far US will go with this stupidity or they are actually planning their response and thinking the consequences for not just for their own country, but world at large.

The thing is that the reason Europe is laying out threats to Harley Davidsons and other inane luxury goods and such is because they can't afford to put tariffs on a lot of US exports because they need it, along with much of the rest of the world. It's like expecting them to put high tariffs on natural gas from Russia. Not happening. Our top exports are either natural resources & agricultural products (which you either have the land for in your country or you don't) and highly specialized technological goods like aircraft, pharmaceuticals, and medical equipment, which you can't just manufacture in a country with a few "start your own business" grants from the government.

[Mobius_118]

True.

However I was thinking that it would become national policy.

I just find it hilarious that trump is doing everything that conservatives were afraid Former President Obama was going to do, yet this time I hear naught but a peep from them. Seems their problems came from skin color.

[Vol]

Why would it not be the pressure campaign? NK was already poor and starving, but sustainable enough to keep Kim and the elites in power. If we starve them even harder, then either you lose your masses, or, they get so desperate that the regime no longer is the scariest thing around. Mao was able to pull it off because China's geographically a mess and he had total control over whom went where and knew what, which I assume NK cannot possibly match.

[Raga]

Because nothing has changed recently regarding sanctions or the general state of the population of North Korea. It's sucked for 50 years, and it's not like we just released a new round of sanctions that mean that some massive new famine has started or something. The only thing that's changed is Trumpian chest beating, which NK can just use for propaganda purposes to demonstrate that the US is the "evil empire" or whatever. The only people who are really freaked out by it are random allies of ours, particularly SK. So maybe the pressure worked in the sense that it successfully scared SK and China and Russia into doing something to convince NK to come to the table, but I bet is had next to no impact on NK itself.

[Vol]

I haven't kept up with specifically what's been done with NK beyond hearing constantly about new sanctions and catching illegal resources being smuggled in by Russia/China. Are they not being squeezed to the limit by all this?

[Vol]

Going through the local rag while I ate dinner, I notice they ran an article cribbed from USA Today on how because employment is so high, people with disabilities are being called in for certain low skill jobs. For the article, they chose an otherwise normal looking young woman working at a CVS who has, "depression, anxiety, ADD, ADHD, PTSD, and memory loss." She is 24.

On one hand, it's entirely possible she's had a train wreck life and lost some genetic die rolls and that's crippled her brain. On the other, a betting man might be inclined to put money down that her psychiatrists own a boat.

I'm mostly annoyed with how often I see PTSD specifically, mental illness in general, thrown around, by people who are able to so clearly function at a high level in society. As if it's laudable to claim your brain is broken, as if it's not entirely normal to be anxious or sad or scared or unable to pay attention to stupid bullshit or you forget something sometimes or certain stimuli sets you off for no good reason, sometimes. Not even getting into the bullshit of drugging boys out of boyhood with ADD meds.

[Vol]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eport-says

Ah, okay. If that's legit info, then this is all a trick to get concessions, sanctions aren't working. Unless Kim is literally facing an imminent coup for playing hardball.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

It's literally the same thing North Korea has done every single time the sanctions have started to smart a bit on the people in charge.

Lie through their teeth and claim they're giving concessions. Then immediately back out of their side of the deal once they've gotten a little more aid money.

[Vol]

The House Intel Committee Russian collusion investigation has been wrapped up, they say they found no evidence of any Trump wrongdoing. That leaves the Senate and Mueller, and probably one more, I believe.

[Vol]

Rex Tillerson has been removed as Secretary of State and replaced by CIA head Mike Pompeo, who's post is being filled by now the first female head of the CIA in history, Gina Haspel, because Trump hates women. This does not appear to have been broadcast to Tillerson from what I've seen so far.

[Raga]

Just a kind of idle thought on my part. I am currently reading "Eichmann in Jerusalem" which is an account of the trial of Adolf Eichmann, who was basically in charge of the logistics of the Holocaust, in the 1960s in Israel. This is the book which made the phrase "the banality of evil" famous. Basically, an underlying observation in the book is just how mediocre and banal and essentially silly Eichmann was, a pedantic pencil-pusher of no noteworthy quality whatsoever. And it really did occur to me that basically every major Nazi I can think of who I know anything about (Goering, Himmler, Heydrich, Hoss, even Hitler himself, et al) are all cut from the same mold: aggressive mediocrity. You can look at, say, the French Revolution or the Russian Revolution and point out some bonafide extraordinary people: high ideals, high intelligence, and so on. I literally can't think of a single Nazi high-up that fits this mold. It's sort of interesting.

(There were some people the Nazis inherited like Rommel or von Braun, but they weren't Nazi intelligentsia responsible for directing the ideological and political development of the movement.

[FrozenShadow]

Rex Tillerson has been removed as Secretary of State and replaced by CIA head Mike Pompeo, who's post is being filled by now the first female head of the CIA in history, Gina Haspel, because Trump hates women. This does not appear to have been broadcast to Tillerson from what I've seen so far.

According to Tillerson's aids, he learned his firing from Trump's twitter post of the matter.

Anyway, Trump is running WH and whole US just like he did "The Apprentice" show. In other words, firing anyone in anytime, especially if he doesn't like the person. No matter how qualified this person might be.

[SciFlyBoy]

Just a kind of idle thought on my part...
(There were some people the Nazis inherited like Rommel or von Braun, but they weren't Nazi intelligentsia responsible for directing the ideological and political development of the movement.

I was going to comment Rommel, but he wasn't really a Nazi as much as he was a German soldier.

[Raga]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/555563/

[Vol]

And now McMaster is out. I'm half-convinced Sessions will remain tho, as the GOP desperately want an ineffective AG in that post.

Edit: Now Sarah Sanders is saying he isn't. So the press might've fucked up bigly on this one, or she's out of the loop.

[Vol]

Xi was unanimously (over 2500+ votes) reelected to his post, without term limits. So the Chicoms have dropped the pretense, which is nice. Trump meanwhile has made a non-legally binding thing with Taiwan, which mildly miffed the Chicoms. But I think it's becoming clear that the global mood is moving away from democracy and open borders, slowly in the west perhaps, but this was never the "natural state" of nations.

[Vol]

It is odd where I'm finding right wing enclaves these days. Though "right wing" isn't the best term, and alt-right is branding invented by the old left to stomp out the fledgling young right, so for want of a horse. But the personal chatroom of a British smut artist who specializes in what would be considered advanced degeneracy being firmly center-right by American standards, that is interesting. I think when the old guard of the religious right are gone, you're going to see some wild fluctuations in platforms by virtue of opposition.

For example, libertine behavior might become part of the right by leaping past the puritans, focus on the aspect of freedom and much older traditions ("It is good and manly to lay with your friends, it builds bonds, homosexuality is a concept invented in modern times, and to share your partner with others is blah blah blah"). Whereas the left might become so stratified by identity and then paralyzed by post-modernist thought, that it becomes stuffy and repressive ("Can a gay white man have consensual sex with a bi PoC masculine-leaning person? No, that is immoral, power dynamics! Can a gay white man have sex with another gay white man? No, that is white supremacy. You must be chaste unless the correct person tells you it's okay").

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGB9SY6Fdjo

An oldie but a goodie.

[Mobius_118]

Boy, you leave the 3rd best state in the country alone.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

That's okay. I'll gladly avoid the California of the Midwest.

[Mobius_118]

Stick to your northern white supremacist haven, then. Ranked #37 out of 50 states.

We don't need failures like you here. Continue to be a drain on society.

[DarkStorm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4qm8zofJM4

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Stick to your northern white supremacist haven, then. Ranked #37 out of 50 states.

We don't need failures like you here. Continue to be a drain on society.

"Northern white supremacist haven" fucking Christ you're a cultist.

I'd rather be in the 50th out of 50 states by some retarded ranking system than live in one you think is a "progressive" haven.

[Mobius_118]

Yeah ok.

I only looked at actual statistics for Michigan before even making that claim. Bad news for you.

If you really don't want education, healthcare, economic and infrastructure strength, that's up to you. Keep your backwoods fuckery. Go drink some of that Flint water.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

[DarkStorm]

#26

[Mobius_118]

According to that site, Minnesota ranks #2, behind Iowa.

So we've gotten better. So much for GAC's assertions.

Also, is this winning?

Answer: no. You'd have to be mentally retarded to think this is a good thing. All we're going to get is more unqualified trump sucking morons who will fuck things up worse.

[Raga]

It is odd where I'm finding right wing enclaves these days. Though "right wing" isn't the best term, and alt-right is branding invented by the old left to stomp out the fledgling young right, so for want of a horse. But the personal chatroom of a British smut artist who specializes in what would be considered advanced degeneracy being firmly center-right by American standards, that is interesting. I think when the old guard of the religious right are gone, you're going to see some wild fluctuations in platforms by virtue of opposition.

For example, libertine behavior might become part of the right by leaping past the puritans, focus on the aspect of freedom and much older traditions ("It is good and manly to lay with your friends, it builds bonds, homosexuality is a concept invented in modern times, and to share your partner with others is blah blah blah"). Whereas the left might become so stratified by identity and then paralyzed by post-modernist thought, that it becomes stuffy and repressive ("Can a gay white man have consensual sex with a bi PoC masculine-leaning person? No, that is immoral, power dynamics! Can a gay white man have sex with another gay white man? No, that is white supremacy. You must be chaste unless the correct person tells you it's okay").

Am reading a book now called "Why Liberalism Failed" (meaning classical liberalism generally and not leftist Democrat party liberalism) that makes some interesting observations somewhat toward this end. The argument in the book is fairly complex and in the interest of not writing a novel duplicating it, one of his main points is that "liberty" has ceased to mean what it meant in antiquity and has instead come to mean "freedom from all external constraints/ability to do whatever you want" and to that end liberalism has subverted science basically to this Frankenstein style end of trying to "liberate" us from nature itself. And the modern Left and Right are both aggressively working toward that end. The Left tries to aggressively liberate us from the "constraints" of our own biology, particularly in regards reproduction and the Right tries to aggressively liberate us from the "constraints" of our ecology so we are not dependent on clean air and water and biodiversity and so on. The Left does not go after ecological constraints because of basically "kumbaya/pantheistic" type ideologies that linger there, but anything that ostensibly impacts only your own personal body is fair game. The Right has traditionally not gone after biological constraints because they have been kept on a lease by the Religious Right in regards things like abortion, homosexuality, cloning, transhumansim or whatever. Now, however, the Religious Right has basically ceased to have any political relevance so there is nothing stopping the Right from going full on Nietzsche, which is arguably their natural tendency without the constrainting power of traditional religion.

Either side losing all moral grounding in any cultural and spiritual tradition is a quick way for them to relapse into degeneracy that is just about group or self gratification at any cost. The Left has retained the thinnest of thin vestiges of this secular vaguely pantheistic "Web of Life" mumbo jumbo, but that is under the assault of Identity Politics. I fully expect them to break down into Nietzsche in the not too distant future as well. The only difference will be that the Right will be pursuing the ultimate "liberty" for individuals and the Left will be pursuing the ultimate "liberty" for a tribe of choice.

[DarkStorm]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

[Mobius_118]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

Not wanting to fuck people over, coming from a state that exemplifies not fucking people over.

I dunno, man. I learned a long time ago that if we're going to survive we need to get rid of this idea that we can make it on our own. We're social animals. The loner generally dies horribly.

You can keep being a stick in the ass of the old way of thinking, or you can adapt and survive. Your choice.

[Raga]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

Since I'm waxing goddamned didactic from that book anyway, another point it makes is the ginormous modern state is also a symptom of newfangled "liberty" of the "doing whatever I want without constraint" variety because as people forego their traditional sense of obligation to family and offspring and clan and whatnot, the government has to step in to fulfill various nanny roles for people who fall through the cracks, and also as people forego any kind of personal self restraint in the name of general libertinism, the government has to step up surveillance and penalty for petty crime and so on to keep the animals from eating each other.

It is an interesting read.

[Mobius_118]

The purpose of laws is to create predicable interactions between citizens.

Without them, I have no doubt it'd be a horror show just to go get groceries.

[DarkStorm]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

Since I'm waxing goddamned didactic from that book anyway, another point it makes is the ginormous modern state is also a symptom of newfangled "liberty" of the "doing whatever I want without constraint" variety because as people forego their traditional sense of obligation to family and offspring and clan and whatnot, the government has to step in to fulfill various nanny roles for people who fall through the cracks, and also as people forego any kind of personal self restraint in the name of general libertinism, the government has to step up surveillance and penalty for petty crime and so on to keep the animals from eating each other.

It is an interesting read.

I'm aware of this why are you telling me this of all people?

[Mazder]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

Since I'm waxing goddamned didactic from that book anyway, another point it makes is the ginormous modern state is also a symptom of newfangled "liberty" of the "doing whatever I want without constraint" variety because as people forego their traditional sense of obligation to family and offspring and clan and whatnot, the government has to step in to fulfill various nanny roles for people who fall through the cracks, and also as people forego any kind of personal self restraint in the name of general libertinism, the government has to step up surveillance and penalty for petty crime and so on to keep the animals from eating each other.

It is an interesting read.

I'm aware of this why are you telling me this of all people?

I think it's more to add to your point and also provide to the group as a whole, this being an open forum and all.

[DarkStorm]

Well I wasnt saying he couldnt reply to my post hehe. But what you say makes sense.

[Mobius_118]

Thank you trump for crashing the markets on a daily basis.

Gotta love my investments losing value.

[Raga]

First moral superiority, now state superiority.

Since I'm waxing goddamned didactic from that book anyway, another point it makes is the ginormous modern state is also a symptom of newfangled "liberty" of the "doing whatever I want without constraint" variety because as people forego their traditional sense of obligation to family and offspring and clan and whatnot, the government has to step in to fulfill various nanny roles for people who fall through the cracks, and also as people forego any kind of personal self restraint in the name of general libertinism, the government has to step up surveillance and penalty for petty crime and so on to keep the animals from eating each other.

It is an interesting read.

I'm aware of this why are you telling me this of all people?

I think it's more to add to your point and also provide to the group as a whole, this being an open forum and all.

This. I use people's post as springboards a lot. In fact, I do that more than I am actively disagreeing with people.

[Mobius_118]

Tell me again how Russia isn't involved.

[DarkStorm]

Because the FBI hasnt found any evidence that connects the two.

[Mobius_118]

Are you familiar, at all, with investigation process?

Because I am. You don't release details until the investigation is done. The bits and pieces we're getting barely scratch the surface as to what's really going on.

But sure, keep on going "nah, nothing happened." You're ignoring the facts. I'm the one who gets to suffer the military actions after.

Fucking civilians.

[DarkStorm]

Shouldnt have joined the military then. I dont know what to tell you.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yeah ok.

I only looked at actual statistics for Michigan before even making that claim. Bad news for you.

If you really don't want education, healthcare, economic and infrastructure strength, that's up to you. Keep your backwoods fuckery. Go drink some of that Flint water.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

Oh indeed Michigan's cities have been mismanaged by corrupt democrats for generations now.

It's tragic really.

[Mobius_118]

Shouldnt have joined the military then. I dont know what to tell you.

Ah, you know. Follow your dreams. Get shit on by an ungrateful society. Funny enough, it's the GOP and the child-like Libertarians that do it far more than Liberals.

Oh indeed Michigan's cities have been mismanaged by corrupt democrats for generations now.

It's tragic really.

Funny, everyone I talk to from Michigan say the GOP infiltrated the Democrat leadership and that's the reason why, for some reason, Michigan breaks from Democrat ideals and has been a shithole for those generations.

Something about Classical Liberalism and how it's killing all of you. Might want to remove your heads from your asses.

[DarkStorm]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif

[Mobius_118]

Yes, yes...easy to disregard.

Too bad there's more evidence for me being right. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.

[DarkStorm]

Ok mobius, we shall see.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Tbh I'm curious as to what is going to happen to what is left of his mind in 2020.

Do you think it will shatter completely? Or will he delude himself further? Dive even deeper into "MUH RUSSIA"?

[Mazder]

This. I use people's post as springboards a lot. In fact, I do that more than I am actively disagreeing with people.

I do as well so you're not alone in it, if you thought you were.

Are you familiar, at all, with investigation process?

Because I am. You don't release details until the investigation is done. The bits and pieces we're getting barely scratch the surface as to what's really going on.

But sure, keep on going "nah, nothing happened." You're ignoring the facts. I'm the one who gets to suffer the military actions after.

Fucking civilians.

Would the part I have bolded not mean you should temper all expectations and judgments until all of the investigation is released/concluded?
What if these leaks you've gotten end up being all the evidence you have and there is a massive wave of contrary evidence that ends up coming out of this investigation not talked about simply because it's a popular opinion to hate on Trump?
What if there is the slightest chance of that happening?

Shouldnt have joined the military then. I dont know what to tell you.

Well if it wasn't done this way it'd be back to conscription.

Ah, you know. Follow your dreams. Get shit on by an ungrateful society. Funny enough, it's the GOP and the child-like Libertarians that do it far more than Liberals.

Well then tell society to get fucked and stop doing it until they are grateful or do it themselves then.
If you prostrate yourself at a bunch of people who don't care or outright dislike you/your cause or your structure then maybe it's time to assess why they feel that way instead of just returning their hatred in kind.
You're the one wanting to be understood, you're going to have to extend the olive branch instead of the bayonet.

Tbh I'm curious as to what is going to happen to what is left of his mind in 2020.

Do you think it will shatter completely? Or will he delude himself further? Dive even deeper into "MUH RUSSIA"?

If you're implying Trump's re-election in 2020 I don't think that's going to happen. The Republican Party seems equally annoyed with him as of late and TBH all the Democrats need to do is not put up a Clinton and they'd do relatively well on that alone.

[Raga]

https://newrepublic.com/article/147450/ ... an-workers

[Mobius_118]

Tbh I'm curious as to what is going to happen to what is left of his mind in 2020.

Do you think it will shatter completely? Or will he delude himself further? Dive even deeper into "MUH RUSSIA"?

Yeah when I'm getting prepped for possible conflict all the time, emphasis on a certain nation that I just posted has remote control of our power, your snide little comments mean nothing.

I'm curious that when the whole thing is over, and the entire trump administration, and family, are in prison, will you admit you were wrong or continue to be an insufferable excuse of a human being who should've been snuffed out decades ago.