Bioware General (Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Other)

[Mazder]

I've actually had no problem replaying ME and had done so multiple times before Andromeda came out. My biggest issue was always actually ME1, which I've played about 500 times and I find really boring. Anymore when I go back, I usually skip it and go straight to the second one, using one of my bazillion ME1 savegames for every Shepard iteration imaginable I've built up over the years.

I think mainly ME1's problem is it's uniquness from the rest of the series that makes it so boring in comparison. It's definitely got too much of the hallmarks of an RPG that makes it not as easy to jump in as the rest of the series. Of all the games's story I oddly feel the most disconnect with ME1 merely for it's style of being closer to the older Bioware RPG style.
When looking to play Mass effect most people go in for a more ME2 style of story based game, at least I feel they do these days. You don't go in wanting to do the whole mental prep for a long RPG styled game where you'd be going on long winding quests and side stories as much. ME feels like it now has a main story and a bunch of smaller "episodes" that diverge off. It feels more like a sci fi series than an RPG game in the way the side stuff is delivered.

Plus the clunk doesn't help either.

[Raga]

It's mostly the clunk that's the problem for me and not that it's too much of an RPG. Though ironically, I would actually argue that it's pretty weak in its roleplaying elements and that the rest of the series actually has more real divergence of choice than ME1 has. ME1 has more of the illusion of choice by things like appearing to have a viable "neutral" path by having 3 ostensible dialog choices for most things. However, that choice is almost always a duplicate of the renegage or paragon choice and in many cases all three paraphrases actually lead to the exact same line delivery. Classes and their abilities also have little to no meaningful distinction until t he second game.

The most "RPG" like thing about it is just that it's really slowly paced because it's inundated with unneeded things like inventory clutter, highly dispersed but mostly empty maps that necessitate lots of walking and load screens, and comparatively more info-dump NPCs. But I'd argue that's less of RPG thing inherently and more of an "old game" and/or "bad RPG" thing.

[SciFlyBoy]

Last time I played ME3 was 6 years ago. And recently, I've been lots of multiplayer (Its still pretty active on PC)

I have the urge to play MP too. Xbox is pretty scarce so it's solo on bronze, but it was still very fun.

[TTTX]

The most "RPG" like thing about it is just that it's really slowly paced because it's inundated with unneeded things like inventory clutter, highly dispersed but mostly empty maps that necessitate lots of walking and load screens, and comparatively more info-dump NPCs. But I'd argue that's less of RPG thing inherently and more of an "old game" and/or "bad RPG" thing.

well at least when it comes to the side quests in ME1 made sense from a lore perspective as most of them were on the frontier systems that weren't not yet settled properly, they just set up some permade bases instead of wasting time and money (in universe) on making unik ones because you don't really do that when your on the frontier and to pay off in the side quests always felt better in ME1 then ME2 at least to me.

[Raga]

Even the hubs are like that though. The Citadel has like 5 or 6 supposedly distinct areas, all mostly empty and aesthetically identical.

[TTTX]

Even the hubs are like that though. The Citadel has like 5 or 6 supposedly distinct areas, all mostly empty and aesthetically identical.

well true, but I didn't defend those.

[Mazder]

It's mostly the clunk that's the problem for me and not that it's too much of an RPG. Though ironically, I would actually argue that it's pretty weak in its roleplaying elements and that the rest of the series actually has more real divergence of choice than ME1 has. ME1 has more of the illusion of choice by things like appearing to have a viable "neutral" path by having 3 ostensible dialog choices for most things. However, that choice is almost always a duplicate of the renegage or paragon choice and in many cases all three paraphrases actually lead to the exact same line delivery. Classes and their abilities also have little to no meaningful distinction until t he second game.

The most "RPG" like thing about it is just that it's really slowly paced because it's inundated with unneeded things like inventory clutter, highly dispersed but mostly empty maps that necessitate lots of walking and load screens, and comparatively more info-dump NPCs. But I'd argue that's less of RPG thing inherently and more of an "old game" and/or "bad RPG" thing.

I didn't mean that it's too much of an RPG in itself, more that it's too much of an RPG when compared to the rest of the series.

But yeah the clutter being cleared is one of the things I am glad the games got better at.
I am sorry but ME1 has almost literally no need these days for exploration other than to grab the trinkets for the one or two warscore things in ME3, which they undid by bringing the warscore requirement down so it's even more pintless unless you're doing a completionist run.

well at least when it comes to the side quests in ME1 made sense from a lore perspective as most of them were on the frontier systems that weren't not yet settled properly, they just set up some permade bases instead of wasting time and money (in universe) on making unik ones because you don't really do that when your on the frontier and to pay off in the side quests always felt better in ME1 then ME2 at least to me.

True but there is "frontier" and there is "barely out of the 20th century underground bases that would have made more effort to dig out and build now that I am thinking about it.

I mean Freedom's progress felt more like a frontier colony than anything in ME1.

Mind you the HUBs in ME were never the strongest, the most memorable being Omega, The Citadel and honestly The Normandy itself.

ME has great potential to put life into the universe but kept trying to decide if it wanted to be closer to Star Wars (most of the Galaxy pretty much comfortable in it's place of exploration) or Star Trek (TO BOLDLY GO!!!)

[TTTX]

True but there is "frontier" and there is "barely out of the 20th century underground bases that would have made more effort to dig out and build now that I am thinking about it.

I mean Freedom's progress felt more like a frontier colony than anything in ME1.

Mind you the HUBs in ME were never the strongest, the most memorable being Omega, The Citadel and honestly The Normandy itself.

ME has great potential to put life into the universe but kept trying to decide if it wanted to be closer to Star Wars (most of the Galaxy pretty much comfortable in it's place of exploration) or Star Trek (TO BOLDLY GO!!!)

well most of the bases were generally either for science experiments or criminal bases none of them were towns or most of them on friendly planets where you could breath without a helmet and even very hostile environments.

Never really understood how pure human colonizes could exist in the Terminus systems considering how the batarians pay pirates and the like to attack human colonizes in Council space or humans just make them in the terminus system (then again it's like they have any other place to go if they don't want live in Alliance space expect maybe go to other alien systems in council space) in a place there isn't really armies to protect them (unless they pay for protection).

[Mazder]

well most of the bases were generally either for science experiments or criminal bases none of them were towns or most of them on friendly planets where you could breath without a helmet and even very hostile environments.

Never really understood how pure human colonizes could exist in the Terminus systems considering how the batarians pay pirates and the like to attack human colonizes in Council space or humans just make them in the terminus system (then again it's like they have any other place to go if they don't want live in Alliance space expect maybe go to other alien systems in council space) in a place there isn't really armies to protect them (unless they pay for protection).

Yeah but how many criminal organizations do you know of today who would build a big ass building for their gang? Because those ME1 underground bases are the same thing as a gang doing that today.

Not enough Batarians/Human fleets around Batarian Space making a big wave of pirates not too great?

[TTTX]

Yeah but how many criminal organizations do you know of today who would build a big ass building for their gang? Because those ME1 underground bases are the same thing as a gang doing that today.

Not enough Batarians/Human fleets around Batarian Space making a big wave of pirates not too great?

they could taken from some early settlers (something like what Jacobs father use to do before his ship crashed) or maybe some the gang bosses decided from a base of operation and we don't how they are build, for all we know it could be rather simple and automated for all we know.

I have no idea what you are asking.

[Raga]

It's not the modular repetitiveness of the habitats that were in the issue in ME1. That was actually comparatively minor and, yes, makes thematic sense. I wasn't really even thinking of those when I criticized the game. The issue is with the structure and formularity of the side quests themselves and with exploration in general. It pretty much invariably followed this pattern: spend 15ish minutes trundling around some mountainous planet whose only visual distinction is having different colored dirt, find cave and/or modular habitat, enter said modular habitat and murder everything inside to find either missing dead people or an item. And you spend like 1/3 of the game doing that over and over and over.

That's a not a defense that later fetch-questy, redundant bullshit in later games *wasn't* fetch-questy bullshit. It's that that, whatever you call it is not roleplaying or high quality content and people who extol the virtues of ME1 as somehow singular in quality compared to the rest of the trilogy frequently ignore that fact.

[Sinekein]

So...since I wasn't around, what were the opinions around here on ME:A - aside from the fact that Quarians got shafted due to the cancellation of all DLC?

Was it seen as a total disgrace, a huge disappointment, a mediocre entry, a flawed but interesting game, something much better than the critic consensus, or a hidden masterpiece?

I don't have that many memories of it, I finished it once and didn't play it again due to work and the announcement that EA was burying it and that no DLC would be released. But I recall a very boring start, wonky faces for a 2017 game, but also interesting gameplay directions, a huge improvement of the story once the first 5-10 hours are finished, and actually good loyalty mission, with Liam's being so good I think it wouldn't have looked out of place in Citadel.

[TheodoricFriede]

So...since I wasn't around, what were the opinions around here on ME:A - aside from the fact that Quarians got shafted due to the cancellation of all DLC?

Was it seen as a total disgrace, a huge disappointment, a mediocre entry, a flawed but interesting game, something much better than the critic consensus, or a hidden masterpiece?

I don't have that many memories of it, I finished it once and didn't play it again due to work and the announcement that EA was burying it and that no DLC would be released. But I recall a very boring start, wonky faces for a 2017 game, but also interesting gameplay directions, a huge improvement of the story once the first 5-10 hours are finished, and actually good loyalty mission, with Liam's being so good I think it wouldn't have looked out of place in Citadel.

Opinions were mixed. I liked it. Generally the bold part of what you said is the most accurate description of that game.

Its a good game that got royally screwed by memes in my opinion.

[Alienmorph]

The memes sure didn't help, but I there were quite a few other factors, like the lore-breaking premise of the whole thing (but then again, the previous game also had a premise that completely buttfucked the previously enstablished plot...) and all the behind the scenes crap. And with that I mean both the technical stuff and the internet drama crap.

I said in the past and I'll say it again... it's kind of a miracle Andromeda was even finished and released at all, really...

[Raga]

I think it was a flawed but overall adequate game. A B- that got unfairly dogpiled because of a mix of lingering resentment over the ME3 ending and because it was *only* adequate, especially visually and had the misfortune to come out right after Breath of the Wild & Horizon Zero Dawn. And it didn't get the memo that the Witcher 3 permanently raised the bar on all open-world RPGs and that RPG style circa 2008 just doesn't cut it anymore.

[TheodoricFriede]

and that RPG style circa 2008 just doesn't cut it anymore.

I think RPG style 2008 would have gone over fine. RPG style 2008 wasn't a bunch of endless empty open worlds.

Andromeda improved over Inquisition, but it was still needlessly an open world.

[TTTX]

So...since I wasn't around, what were the opinions around here on ME:A - aside from the fact that Quarians got shafted due to the cancellation of all DLC?

Was it seen as a total disgrace, a huge disappointment, a mediocre entry, a flawed but interesting game, something much better than the critic consensus, or a hidden masterpiece?

I don't have that many memories of it, I finished it once and didn't play it again due to work and the announcement that EA was burying it and that no DLC would be released. But I recall a very boring start, wonky faces for a 2017 game, but also interesting gameplay directions, a huge improvement of the story once the first 5-10 hours are finished, and actually good loyalty mission, with Liam's being so good I think it wouldn't have looked out of place in Citadel.

It was okay, IMO.

But it did have some problems here and there, like the overall plot was step down from previous Bw titles, it was also very generic with the new alien designs and it reused a lot of stuff from the old trilogy, like an alien that are vanished for unknown reasons and the Kett more or less just being the Reaper, Geth and Collectors thrown into 1.

I think RPG style 2008 would have gone over fine. RPG style 2008 wasn't a bunch of endless empty open worlds.

Andromeda improved over Inquisition, but it was still needlessly an open world.

DA:I still had the better plot of the two though.

[Deano]

I still quite enjoyed the game, it took a while after playing the game to really digest it's weaknesses. It doesn't hold a candle to the original trilogy. The change in writing style wasn't as memorable and the world of andromeda never felt even close to being fleshed out, which is remarkable for a game that long. I'm still thoroughly convinced so far that the Frostbite Engine just doesn't create good Action gameplay, both DA:I and ME:A combats felt sluggish and robotic. Like a chore while I got to the bits I actually enjoyed.

[TheodoricFriede]

DA:I still had the better plot of the two though.

NOOOOOPE

[TTTX]

NOOOOOPE

yes it was, the problem with DA:I plot was more in the gameplay department because of the whole power point system you needed to progress the thing which stopped everything in it's path.

ME:A's plot was poorly executed by comparison, had plot lines that wasn't finished and had a lot dumb moments.

[Raga]

I think DAI had a *better* plot, but the mages/templars thing is also the single-most uninteresting major plotline in a Bioware game. I sincerely don't give 2 fucks about this as a moral dilemma or a plot point and thus however high the quality, I've always just found it irritating rather than engaging.

[Someone With Mass]

Not to mention that the characters were either annoying as all hell or sleep-inducing. People shit on DA2 all the time, but at least that one had fun characters and moments. In my 15 hours on Inquisition (yeah, I didn't finish it because the game never gave me a good reason to), all I remember is the tedious grind and the saturated open world bullshit that plagued games back then.

[TheodoricFriede]

I am not entirely unconvinced that the vast majority of DAI's plot was them taking what was supposed to be the plot for a 10 - 15 hour DA2 expansion, and stretching it into a roughly 4000 hour long open world game.

This is especially the case once you start replacing key characters in the DAI plot with characters from DA2.

Such as the Temple of Mythal. In which you have Morrigan obsessed with finding an eluvian and drinking from the well of sorrows. That whole plot point makes a whole lot more sense once you replace Morrigan with Merrill.

[TTTX]

I am not entirely unconvinced that the vast majority of DAI's plot was them taking what was supposed to be the plot for a 10 - 15 hour DA2 expansion, and stretching it into a roughly 4000 hour long open world game.

This is especially the case once you start replacing key characters in the DAI plot with characters from DA2.

Such as the Temple of Mythal. In which you have Morrigan obsessed with finding an eluvian and drinking from the well of sorrows. That whole plot point makes a whole lot more sense once you replace Morrigan with Merrill.

well reusing ideas isn't new for games, but I don't think they used the entire DA2 cancelled expansion and stretch it out to make DA:I, although I get the feeling Hawk was probably original intended as the propagandist of DA:I but because DA2 not being that well received among some fans and the obvious rush job during DA2 development much like ME:A as one of the causes of that well, it was most likely decided against Hawk.

Well Morrigan do have a story with Eluvians as the last Dragon age Origins DLC shows and she does have reasons for wanting the Well of Sorrows, which goes around Flemeth who Morrigan is afraid off, depending on your choices she either has a son to protect or just want to protect herself from someone who she considered not truly human before DA:I and having a lot of old knowledge could help with that.

So you can make a case for Morrigan as well for Merril it's just easier with Merril because of obsessive she is with old elven lore which cost her close to everything, although it also does kind of depend one when the cancelled expansion was suppose to take place because if it was after DA2 there is the slight problem that Merrill might be well dead.

[Mazder]

Such as the Temple of Mythal. In which you have Morrigan obsessed with finding an eluvian and drinking from the well of sorrows. That whole plot point makes a whole lot more sense once you replace Morrigan with Merrill.

Maybe in about the same way as "powerful mage wants power" otherwise other people would have it.

I am not entirely unconvinced that the vast majority of DAI's plot was them taking what was supposed to be the plot for a 10 - 15 hour DA2 expansion, and stretching it into a roughly 4000 hour long open world game.

This is especially the case once you start replacing key characters in the DAI plot with characters from DA2.

I honestly didn't get that effect, I felt it was it's own story, maybe a 30hour experience, or at least not as long as we got. A lot of it was the filler pieces like the open-world filled with menial tasks.

I don't really see how much of it can be attributed to DA2's cast. A few, maybe, but those ones are in the game at the points needed anyway.
Anders would be either in hiding because he's the source of the war and he feels shame or Justice might have overtaken him and made him piss off. Not sure he'd honestly be around.

Aveline would be holding down Kirkwall so nothing much for he to do away from it.

Bethany/Carver would probably be the only two other than Hawke I could think of that'd matter, but they'd probably be a sub-commander or something in whatever side they chose. Maybe a replacer for Stroud.

Fenris, I dunno, maybe he'd join in, or maybe he'd just fuck off and pout some more. (Seriously even if you get him to like you he's still a gloomy motherfucker).

Isabela, while I'd like for her to be around I can honestly say that there is little profit in it for her really to sign on, it'd be as it was in the game, with rumours of her pirating about.

Merrill, again, the only other character I think could fit, but TBH all she'd do is get in the way of the whole Solas thing and honestly I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
What with Corypheus being a heavy blood magic user to enhance his general that gets chosen later on I am sure there would be a decent plot point for Merrill to have met her match Blood Magic-wise but TBH I can't be arsed to draw up that whole debate again in the game.

Sebastian would probably have gone back to Starkhaven to defend it. I doubt he'd be as amongst the game as much as even if he's all religious-y we've already got Leliana for that.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dei5beLqzzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqJPKnRIu0

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0heZIqepjI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCwZ9-g6R_8

[magnuskn]

Oh, I guess they fixed "STEEEEEEVE!... oh, okay".

But the more important question: Is it compatible with MEHEM? Because if it isn't, fuck that.

[Alienmorph]

Either way, looks like some impressive mod work. Definately worth keeping an eye on.

[Riptide]

Funny, I'm halfway through a new playthrough of the trilogy. Definitely gonna grab this and the Tali Romance Mods before I fire up ME3.

[magnuskn]

Hm, what does the Tali romance mod do what the regular game doesn't?

[Alienmorph]

Mod's description:

Now available on Nexus Mods, the Tali Romance Mod (TRM) includes the following features:

- introducing a true, proper romance culmination scene between Tali and Shepard, featuring a new 3D model of Tali "suit-less"

- introducing a new Normandy cabin photo of Tali for Shepard, using Tali's new 3D in-game appearance

- improved several of Tali's emails based on her relationship status with Shepard (friendship or romance), with 2 new emails written for the mod

- corrected Javik's ambient dialogue on Tali "being pleased with Shepard" if quarians/geth achieved peace on Rannoch

- improved one of the Tali/Garrus ambient conversations in Engineering with a new "Shepard-romance" reply variant for Tali

Basically, bunch of small tweaks to help the relationship feel less like a b-plot, and proper final scene with a very nicely modeled suitless Tali.

[Dragaros]

Hm, what does the Tali romance mod do what the regular game doesn't?

Tali Romance Mod - trailer

Tali Romance Mod - Tali/Shepard romance scene

https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/610/

[Riptide]

It also has the best looking suitless Tali out there, in my opinion. The eyes are perfect and her bob is adorable.

[magnuskn]

Sounds excellent! Thanks!

Hrrmmmm. I guess I got another playthrough coming. My fourth or fifth? Anyway, gonna be good with MEHEM.

[TheodoricFriede]

Does MEHEM still have the laughable faces at the end of the game, or did they finally figure that out?

[SciFlyBoy]

Funny, I'm halfway through a new playthrough of the trilogy. Definitely gonna grab this and the Tali Romance Mods before I fire up ME3.

I take it you're on PC? Are you able to recruit Tali earlier in ME2 than on Xbox?

[Riptide]

Funny, I'm halfway through a new playthrough of the trilogy. Definitely gonna grab this and the Tali Romance Mods before I fire up ME3.

I take it you're on PC? Are you able to recruit Tali earlier in ME2 than on Xbox?

There's a mod that lets you do that. One that unlocks all the missions right from the start, as was initially intended. Tali and Legion even have dialogue on all the recruitment missions you'd normally miss.

[TheodoricFriede]

There's a mod that lets you do that. One that unlocks all the missions right from the start, as was initially intended. Tali and Legion even have dialogue on all the recruitment missions you'd normally miss.

No kidding? Only one I ever found unlocked everyone EXCEPT Tali, because hey fuck Tali fans, right?

[Someone With Mass]

There's a mod that lets you do that. One that unlocks all the missions right from the start, as was initially intended. Tali and Legion even have dialogue on all the recruitment missions you'd normally miss.

No kidding? Only one I ever found unlocked everyone EXCEPT Tali, because hey fuck Tali fans, right?

That's odd. Those dialogues were all over the old threads on the forums. Then again, it was...eight years ago...ugh.

[TheodoricFriede]

That's odd. Those dialogues were all over the old threads on the forums. Then again, it was...eight years ago...ugh.

The only mod that unlocks everyone from the start I mean.

[Someone With Mass]

The only mod that unlocks everyone from the start I mean.

Ah. That explains it. I never got those mods. That is a weird choice for modders to make.

[Mazder]

It also has the best looking suitless Tali out there, in my opinion. The eyes are perfect and her bob is adorable.

I wish that one was exported to SFM and used instead of the current most popular version.

I also hope I can make one as least as good as that.

[magnuskn]

Does MEHEM still have the laughable faces at the end of the game, or did they finally figure that out?

Not sure which faces that would be, except at the scene where Shepard hangs up Andersons plaque at the memorial. Which were pretty okay, I think. Shepards face still being messed up was kinda "eh?", though. And one should not use the music they provide for the ending, it's horrendous.

[TheHawkster]

I'm more into John P's MEHEM (Aka JAM with the no StarBrat version) since MEHEM itself is too over the top for my taste and JAM gives the same satisfying ending without the unnecessary fan-made curscenes.

Its a shame that PEOM is currently suspended because some killjoy decided to report the mod for the use of XCOM 2 music as it fulfills what Bioware couldn't do in time.

I would do my ME3 playthrough right now, but apparently I'm having issues with installing ALOT. I could still play with no HQ textures, but I can barely tolerate the vanilla textures as it is.

[SciFlyBoy]

Can you play the ME series on steam or is it something I need to get from EA at Origins?

[TheodoricFriede]

Can you play the ME series on steam or is it something I need to get from EA at Origins?

Its origins only, which is why my brief moment of "Maybe I'll try the PC version..." vaporized.

[SciFlyBoy]

So, I'll be playing ME3 MP for a little while tonight on Xbox. Gamertag is IVI Flyboy IVI, if anyone wants to join in.

[Riptide]

So, I'll be playing ME3 MP for a little while tonight on Xbox. Gamertag is IVI Flyboy IVI, if anyone wants to join in.

If you were on PC, I hella would.

And seriously? The servers are still up for it?

[SciFlyBoy]

If you were on PC, I hella would.

And seriously? The servers are still up for it?

Yeah, still up. Though I don't have the collectors DLC, so I don't know if I would qualify for every single mission type. I'm kind of addicted to pain, so I find it enjoyable to play these on solo bronze. Super hard, but I can get 11 waves done on certain maps with certain enemies.