Films and TV (Untagged spoilers)

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2RzZRTqzbQ

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoVMoceIezo

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ7gyQ77ADA

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpAS7LhB_x8

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEJkv1K90nU

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mliGIFkKeLo

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2xM0e3rzw

The show wasn't without its flaws, but I really enjoyed Black Lightning. Looking forward to more.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YXUbm2BCPU

I enjoyed seasons 1 & 2, but 3 & 4 let me down. Hope this one is better.

[TheodoricFriede]

If you're coming to the conclusion that Star Wars fans essentially just want the prequels then you’re observing or hanging out only in tiny pockets of the SW fan base that do not in any way represent the desires and attitudes of the general greater whole or have a legit claim to having a finger on the pulse of the fan base at large.

Here's the deal.

I dont believe you.

Because every argument I see made basically boils down to "X wasn't enough of a badass".

[Sinekein]

The SW fanbase has at its disposal a mountain of content which allows a much better development and in-depth look at characters and situations than movies do - games, comics, novels. That is I assume why people are unhappy with what they get.

Especially as unlike Marvel they are not retelling comic book or novel stories people are familiar with. So they can't really show characters with a severe lack of exposition, while counting on fan memories to fill the gaps.

Although Rogue One was pretty great when it comes to creating characters while keeping a tight story. But all the characterization they got, from a universe-building point of view, is a moot point as no one survives but Vader who didn't need it in the first place.

[Alienmorph]

If you're coming to the conclusion that Star Wars fans essentially just want the prequels then you’re observing or hanging out only in tiny pockets of the SW fan base that do not in any way represent the desires and attitudes of the general greater whole or have a legit claim to having a finger on the pulse of the fan base at large.

Here's the deal.

I dont believe you.

Because every argument I see made basically boils down to "X wasn't enough of a badass".

No. Not really. There's butthurt fans that reason like that, most definately. But I've came across plenty of valid critisms in my digging. Like the fact the new trilogy's setup basically makes feel like someone pressed a big "undo" button over the ending of Episode 6 because "Hey you want sum Star Wars or not?". Or the fact that is incredibly stupid to set up a side story like the one in Kanto Bite, but cut out of the movie Luke or Leia mourning the loss of Han Solo. Or how lazy it is to set up an Emperor equivalent and kill him off withou not even finding out who he was or what he was really capable of.

It's definately NOT just a matter of "But I wanted to see Luke getting to kick some asses with Force-powers!". Althought that would have made things more bearable.

Especially as unlike Marvel they are not retelling comic book or novel stories people are familiar with. So they can't really show characters with a severe lack of exposition, while counting on fan memories to fill the gaps.

Uh. Also no, not really. None of the MCU movies is a straight up adaptation of a storyarc from the comics. The closest thing to an adaptation of an existing story are Civil War and Infinity War... and even those mostly only share the title, and a few scenes and beats with the source material. The comics are just an inspiration, but the current Marvel movies have long been their own beast. The only thing the movies keep true from the comics are the characters themselves, which... duh, why even bother making movies about this or that character, if you don't even nail the protagonis?

[Dragaros]

Here's the deal.

I dont believe you.

Because every argument I see made basically boils down to "X wasn't enough of a badass".

If that's the case then you're not looking hard enough or in the right places. Cast a bigger net. A vocal minority doesn't speak for the majority. There are a multitude of issues at play beyond "X wasn't enough of a badass", which is not an accurate generalization of a lot of valid concerns in and of itself. There are obviously some people who champion puerile arguments that could be boiled down to that summation but that is hardly most of them. Believe what you want. You're free to make up your own mind. But I do think you are doing yourself a disservice by only skimming the surface of this matter. I'm not saying this to pick a fight nor am I making shit up to deceive; I'm honestly just trying to help.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-x4Dwz-rU

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygD802usNmg

[Dragaros]

[Sinekein]

Uh. Also no, not really. None of the MCU movies is a straight up adaptation of a storyarc from the comics. The closest thing to an adaptation of an existing story are Civil War and Infinity War... and even those mostly only share the title, and a few scenes and beats with the source material. The comics are just an inspiration, but the current Marvel movies have long been their own beast. The only thing the movies keep true from the comics are the characters themselves, which... duh, why even bother making movies about this or that character, if you don't even nail the protagonis?

Characters already exist. And the way they relate to the story is broadly respected, which means that they are not created from a vacuum like the original SW characters.

If you consider Black Panther, then even if the movie does not follow one particular storyline, T'Challa is still the Black Panther and king of Wakanda, NAkia is still his love interest, Okoye his bodyguard, Shuri his little sister, M'Baku an ape-themed rival and Killmonger a personal enemy and the son of a disgraced Wakandan. Even if the story is entirely original, those plot elements will be familiar to comic readers. This way, they can both "keep true" to the comics while saying whatever they want to say.

Star Wars in its current form does not have those plot elements, and the few it has are so prominent in pop culture that it is nearly impossible to change anything about them without creating fury among the fans - see the Luke discussions. You can't really change R2D2, Luke, Leia, Han or Chewie...but those are all the previous elements you have to build your story, everything else will have to be created from scratch. And, most of the time, unfavorably compared to something that existed before but that you could not reuse (Rey-Leia-Padmé, Kylo-Vader, etc). And trying to distance yourself from the OT will also cause people to criticize something that is "untrue" to the way they see the material.

It's not that trivial to successfully pull, and Marvel deserves praise for nailing the recipe (less so to reusing it to death). But it's even harder with Star Wars than it is with various comic book adaptations.

[Raga]

The whole "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing just baffles the piss out of me considering this episode could be called "Episode 8: being the story of how a noncommittal and confused girl royally fucks up by assuming she has the answers to everything" if it was a 18th century pamphlet with those like 50 word long titles.

[Someone With Mass]

I just don't think she's an interesting character. She's more of the "fangirl becoming like the hero's replacement" trope with minimal effort.

[TTTX]

I just don't think she's an interesting character. She's more of the "fangirl becoming like the hero's replacement" trope with minimal effort.

I think most of the new character are pretty meh at best in the new trilogy, expect Rose she is terrible.

The only one I like is BB-8 and he is a droid with no lines.

[Alienmorph]

If you have some time you don't know how to spend...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAOuSMsnsV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw

This guy gets a lot of what I think is wrong with the new SW, and explains it better than I probably could. And despite the title doesn't really do the whole "screaming and yelling" that's become the shtick of a lot of movie reviewers on YT. If you have even more time to waste, he did an analysis of Last Jedi almost line by line that ended up being longer than the movie itself, and is doing it for Force Awakens too. But I wouldn't recommend those unless you want to go really in depth.

Not trying to sway anyone's opinion at all costs, just pointing out something that isn't just "Last Jedi sucks b'cause Rey beats Lukk" whining, but actually some more thought-out criticism.

Your opinions and tastes are yours, just don't dismiss all the backlash as "angry fanboys that would never be happy anyway" as the people at LucasFilm did so far.

[Azint]

For whatever it's worth, I was ambivalent about Rey in TFA, and I didn't begin to really like her until TLJ. She screws up tremendously in TLJ, and gets repeatedly reprimanded by Luke, Snoke, and even a bit by Kylo Ren. Not unlike Luke in Empire Strikes Back, does Rey spend a huge portion having her humble pie. I like her because she screws up, and because she still tries to act in spite of it, which I feel is an antithesis to any conventional Mary Sue who floats along fine no matter whatever action or inaction they have.

[Someone With Mass]

I like a notion that I saw which says that the characters in the new movies are just along for the ride instead of trying to drive the plot forward. Instead of having Rey actively look for a ship on which her friends are captive or whatever, she just goes with whatever happens, because it luckily puts her where she needs to be.

Or something like that. Paraphrasing.

[Raga]

43 upcoming sci-fi/fantasy shows:

https://tv.avclub.com/game-of-game-of-t ... 1828746565

[Sinekein]

43, wow. I'll TL;DR it here with my personal takes.


Amazon first:

1. Cleopatra, about Cleopatra VII - looks interesting, much more so than the Freeform pitch which is apparently focused more on adventure. No lead yet.
   
2. Conan the Barbarian - no casting yet either. Curious to see whether Conan can still be fresh within a fantasy genre it has helped codifying.
   
3. Culture (Amazon) - based on Banks' books. I have not yet read one but it is supposed to be a sci-fi monument about the "Culture", a hyper-advanced society (and those that try to resist it). Nothing is known yet.
   
4. The Dark Tower, based on King's books. Apparently almost dead due to the failure of the movie.
   
5. East or West - from a comics from Image about the Apocalypse horseman Death trying to save the world apparently. Don't know about it, will give the books a look.
   
6. Good Omens - another Gaiman adaptation. Stars David Tennant, Martin Sheen, and there's also Frances McDormand in case you want the cast to be meatier.
   
7. Lazarus - adaptation from a Rucka comics I don't know, but that also looks interesting.
   
8. Lord of the Rings - it's about Young Aragorn. Amazon is going to spend all the money on it ($250m for the rights only already).
   
9. Ringworld - based on books by Larry Niven about a giant artificial ring around a sun where many aliens live. Apparently includes a lot of alien sex too.
   
10. Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson adaptation. About a pizza-delivery guy with a katana. Might be stuck in development hell at the moment.
    
11. The Wheel of Time) - I still haven't gotten to start it due to how massive it looks (2782 named characters apparently...), but it's a sci-fi staple. In the middle of a rights war at the moment.

That's a lot of projects. Apple next. I didn't know they did TV, but here we are:

1. Foundation - the Asimov books. Haven't read, but it's apparently not TV-suited.

The BBC:

1. His Dark Materials - that great, great Pullman trilogy which was disappointing as a movie. James McAvoy is Asriel, and Lin-Manuel Miranda is Lee Scoresby, but its success will depend on how good the actress playing Lyra is.
   
2. The Watch - not the Night one, the Ankh-Morpork one from Pratchett.

Targeting quality more than quantity apparently. CBS:

1. Luna: New Moon - not about werewolves despite my initial preconception, but about a lunar colony in 2110 and its politics. Development stuck.

When I read CBS, I always think about Obama's sequence on the Colbert Report. Anyway, Disney (and presumably its upcoming streaming service):

1. Star Wars - Jon Favreau tackling the post-ROTJ era (five years after episode VI actually). But Favreau is currently working on The Lion King, so it's not gonna air soon.

Fox (nb: isn't Disney buying it?):

1. The Passage - a Justin Cronin adaptation, apparently vampires vs survivors in a post-apocalyptic world. Cast includes Mark-Paul Gosselaar and Saniyya Sidney whom I don't know. Description makes it look a bit like The Last of Us. Airs in 2019.

FX:

1. Y - from Vaughan and Guerra's comic about the last male on Earth, Yorick. Cast has been announced.

HBO:

1. Confederate - that Benioff and Weiss project about the USA where the South won the Civil War. A less-than-stellar announcement and B&W being committed to Star Wars probably means it's never going to air.
   
2. Demimonde - an unknown project helmed by JJ Abrams.
   
3. Game of Thrones - Age of Heroes - the first spinoff, thousand of years before the current GOT.
   
4. GOT spinoff 2
5. GOT spinoff 3
6. GOT spinoff 3
7. GOT spinoff 4 - four competing spinoffs, of which one has apparently won, but not much else is known.
8. Glare - another Abrams project about the colonization of a distant world. Apparently stuck.
   
9. Lovecraft Country - a story that mixes Lovecraft and racism in the South, picked by Get Out writer Jordan Peele.
   
10. The Nevers - a Whedon project about badass (but I assume fragile, bec. Whedon) magical girls UNDER VICTORIA.
    
11. Watchmen - yup, the Alan Moore masterpiece. But this time, instead of a retelling like Snyder did, it's a sequel. Jeremy Irons' in it.
    
12. Who fears Death - science-fantasy starring a teenage girl, set in North Africa.

Hulu:

1. Queen of Shadows - based on the YA novel series by Sarah J. Maas of which I know nothing.
   
2. The Vampire Chronicles - the Anne Rice novels, with Lestat as the hero, unlike in Interview with a Vampire.

Netflix:

1. Cursed - the Arthurian mythos, but Arthur is a mercenary, Nimue/Viviane is a teen, and they team-up to find Merlin, and Frank Miller is writing. I was excited until the last part.
   
2. The Witcher - the Sapkowski novels, and the celebrated video games, with Henry "Superman" Cavill playing Geralt.

Was expecting more from Netflix, but they already have a truckload of Marvel ones. Showtime:

1. Kingkiller Chronicle - a Rothfuss adaptation. If it's faithful to the books, it might be the most lovingly-crafted piece of emptiness fantasy TV has ever seen.
   
2. Halo - the games, yes. Rupert Wyatt, who helmed the very nice Planet of the Apes revivals, is involved, but it's a script that has changed hands a lot, so...

Syfy:

1. Hyperion - yet another book I know I should have read, by Dan Simmons (but I didn't like his book with the Chess metaphor whose English name eludes me). Bradley Cooper is involved.
   
2. Nightflyers - another GRRM adaptation, but without much of Martin because he has a HBO deal.

Starz:

1. The Continental - a John Wick spinoff. It's strange to see it in that list

TNT:

1. The Broken Earth - a N.K. Jemisin adaptation. It's about a litterally broken Earth, ie with a continent getting away.

No network:

[list=][*]Gormenghast - an adaptation from Mervyn Peake's books, published in the 50's.
[*]Lord of Light - a Roger Zelazny adaptation, book from 1968
[*]Sirens of Titan - a Martian Invasion story, adapted from a Kurt Vonnegut novel[/list]

Well, basically, those three are old, old projects.

[Alienmorph]

Conan is more of a collection of stories with the same protagonist and set in the same universe, rather than one big narrative. So it's almost like it's pre-made to be turned into something episodic. I can see it working well, if they actually stick a bit more to the original tales. But I'm not so sure they will... given the current climate, a super-musckly alpha male fighting with and/or for scantily dressed women might piss some snowflakes off...

Foundation... I've read the Asimov original part of the story, but not its "fanmade" continuations (he died before he could finish it and other sci-fi writers wrote some sequels/spiritual successors to it). There's some pretty intriguing concepts going on in it, but there's not a lot of action, or characters that stick around for long, since it's a generational-spanning thing. So I see making something out of it really hard, unless they focus on a key time period of the story, or do some heavy, HEAVY re-imagining. Also I'm not really a fan of space operas depicting a galaxy only populated by humans. Tho that is eventually explained within the story and it's not just out of laziness.

Hyperion and Ringworld are sagas that I've always wanted to read, but so far I haven't got to. So if they can make a good series out of either of them, I'm onboard.

And I'm actually pretty curious to see Favreau's SW series as well, believe it or not. Seeying the aftermath of the fall of the Empire and/or where the heck the First Order came from honestly sounds more interesting than anything that's gonna be in Episode 9.

Oh and Watchmen's not really a sequel. Is a reboot/reimagining/whatever the fuck thei're doing. All we know so far is that thei're bragging on and on about having a super-diverse cast and none of the original characters. So it might be another SJW-fest in the making. Also there IS a Watchmen sequel currently in progress, named Doomsday Clock, in comic form, and despite a rocky start is getting better and better. So I'd recommend that if you want to dive more into that universe.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYjBXyJu-ME

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsL4voedcJU

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_9k0IrvWg

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKrpgJTS-Vg

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egd8-ctoq5Y

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgX9WrVFO0Q

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQWtaLTOwCw

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an9Zfn3IZCY

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk22p6RWxzk

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64X1A4e0PRs

[Dragaros]

"The MonsterVerse directors meet! From left to right: Jordan Vogt-Roberts (Kong: Skull Island), Mike Dougherty (Godzilla: King of the Monsters), Adam Wingard (Godzilla vs. Kong), and Gareth Edwards (Godzilla)."

[Raga]

Why is Watchmen getting a sequel? I'm trying hard to come up with a story that needs a sequel less than Watchmen and just drawing a blank. It can only go downhill. It ended exactly as it should end. Destination reached. Story over.

[Alienmorph]

Why is Watchmen getting a sequel? I'm trying hard to come up with a story that needs a sequel less than Watchmen and just drawing a blank. It can only go downhill. It ended exactly as it should end. Destination reached. Story over.

Because money, and because if DC doesn't do anything with the Watchmen characters and universe eventually Moore would get the rights to the whole thing.

Which is why that the Watchmen sequel in the comics has then crossing over and becoming connected with the main DC comics universe. But as I said, at least that story is decent.

The "reimagining" thei're going for in the TV show... yeah, that one worries me quite a bit instead.

[Dragaros]

"Academy retreats on popular oscar category for now"

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxVoZYZQeBU

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0rgQkK6590

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCBgArRQl3Y

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tevpmk2k63U

[FrozenShadow]

The whole "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing just baffles the piss out of me considering this episode could be called "Episode 8: being the story of how a noncommittal and confused girl royally fucks up by assuming she has the answers to everything" if it was a 18th century pamphlet with those like 50 word long titles.

I think whole Rey's Mary Sue status comes simply from the fact she can use force as well as she does without any training what so ever. It also doesn't help, Rey also beat Kylo Ren in TFA and then the whole fight Snoke's ship in TLJ. Sure, Kylo was founded and emotionally unbalanced in TFA, but Rey still shouldn't have fought Kylo so easily. As for Snoke ship scene, that makes even less sense. There should be no way Rey could've fought as well as she did with her non-existent training.

Anyway, point being, if Rey would be character in any other franchise, there would be no problem. But because she is character in SW and uses force, there has to be explanation for why she is so skilled. Either there hasn't to be some actually training montage or some previous training/history is heavily implied and/or told by other characters. Yet, Rey has none of that. Or at least this is my main problem with Rey. She uses Force, yet no proper explanation had been given.

Of course, this just me view. I'm sure there are other people with many more reasons for why Rey is Mary Sue.

[Sinekein]

But because she is character in SW and uses force, there has to be explanation for why she is so skilled.

Every SW protagonist ever is abnormally strong in the force. Rey is a Watsonian exception, but a Doylist norm.

[Alienmorph]

The problem is that the ground rules for how the Jedi and the Force work have been set, quite well at this point. You can play with those rules, you can bend them quite a bit too. But the new movies straight up break them.

Even if we want to say Rey is extremely powerful and proficient, that doesn't explain where all her skills come from. Anakin was the most powerful force-user of his generation... yet he couldn't just start force-pulling stuff, or know instantly how to swing a lightsaber as well as someone who trained in it for years. And he was a great pilot because of his enhances reflexes, but he couldn't drive a bulky transport ship without co-pilot, and even if he could have, probably not as the first time ever he drove a starship, period.

The new movies basically take the "it's just magic, it doesn't have to make sense!" approach, and let Rey get away with pretty much everything that suits her needs and the ones of the plot. Which is bullcrap even in the most fantastic of fantasy setting: you have to set up some rules and follow them, otherwise your story will feel lazy and poor thought-out. Which is something that can be easily said of the new SW movies.

And the sad thing is that it's probably too late to fix things... even if they retcon Rey into NOT being the daughter of nobodies (which is... 90% certain they will) she already proven to be more powerful and proficient than any untrained Force User, so unless an heck of an explanation is provided, it's going to be really hard to get the Mary Sue stentch off her.

And we have JJ Abrams at the helm again... the guy who loves set up mysteries buts sucks at resolving them...

[Sinekein]

Even if we want to say Rey is extremely powerful and proficient, that doesn't explain where all her skills come from.

Rey has had a staff with her since the very first scene she appears in in TFA. If she spent ten years learning how to use it, it explains pretty well why she quickly gets the hang of lightsabers and how to swing them - especially against a grievously injured opponent.

Also, you're comparing the skills of Rey, an adult, with those of Anakin, a freaking 9 yo who fought a deadly space battle over Naboo without having ever piloted anything but a pod before. She does not exactly sound overpowered. Rey was 10 years older when we met her.

Finally, Mary Sue =/= overpowered, as said before. That's actually about the only Mary Sue trait Rey exhibits, and even then in the SW verse it's debatable.

[Alienmorph]

Learning how to use a staff and an sword are two completely different things... if you train all your life with a weapon, and then pick un a very different one, you're not gonna be instantly capable to use the latter as well as the first. The weight, the balance, the reach... it's all completely different. Finn, who was trained all his life for war, could barely swing the damn thing. Yet Rey after a couple days of carrying that new weird weapons can hold her ground against an whole room full of highly-trained pretorian guards...

And the age of Anakin doesn't really matter all that much in this argument, since Rey might be older, yes, but I don't see how that means she picked up force training anywhere... also the scene where Anakin pilots a fighter is dumb, yes, but is not entirely out nowhere that he could drive small ships... the pods he raced into were essentially recycled spaceship junk, so the controls must have been quite similar... that's still more experience than Rey had when she first piloted the Falcon.

And I'll agree Mary Sue and overpowered are two different things, for sure. But I can't really say I agree overpowered is her only "Sue trait".

[Sinekein]

Learning how to use a staff and an sword are two completely different things... if you train all your life with a weapon, and then pick un a very different one, you're not gonna be instantly capable to use the latter as well as the first.

I am pretty sure I've routinely seen Jedi (such as Anakin or Obi-Wan in The Clone Wars) pull that trick, being lightsaber users, but also using the elite droid's two-handed electric staves whenever they were forced to.

Finn has trained all his life to use a gun. Force users are never shown to be proficient with ranged weapons, but with melee ones? They catch up super quickly. Finn was probably handed a blaster during the first day of his training, he would have no reason to know what to do with a melee weapon (especially as Finn had no reason to train to fight Jedis, and as such, to think about what kind of weapon a lightsaber is).

As for Rey's piloting skills, we see people driving the Falcon without copilot, if only when the crew has to tend to the cannons. It's the most famous ship in the universe, not the hardest to control. And having lived in a junkyard, it would make sense for Rey to already have visited downed starships, which could explain how she picks up the controls. It would make no sense if the Falcon was a jewel of advanced technology, or if Rey had lived her whole life in wealth with only access to the most advanced ships, but here it's a junkyard rat piloting a junk ship.

[TTTX]

As for Rey's piloting skills, we see people driving the Falcon without copilot, if only when the crew has to tend to the cannons. It's the most famous ship in the universe, not the hardest to control. And having lived in a junkyard, it would make sense for Rey to already have visited downed starships, which could explain how she picks up the controls. It would make no sense if the Falcon was a jewel of advanced technology, or if Rey had lived her whole life in wealth with only access to the most advanced ships, but here it's a junkyard rat piloting a junk ship.

I'll like to add to this and point out the Falcon was already considered old as far back as a new hope (so it's pretty much ancient by the time of Force Awakens), not to mention it has been outfitted with new tech since it was stolen from Han, not to mention there are auto pilots in the SW, expect when purple haired leaders need to sacrifice themselves.