Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

Go ahead and support the WHO Mobius. They're your kind of organization. Corrupt, in the pocket of the Chinese, and thoroughly globalist.

[Mobius_118]

You really want people to die, then. Got it.

Also you support the most corrupt group of gimps the US hasn't seen since Nixon. You really are the most hateful, bigoted piece of shit here.

[Sinekein]

So first to answer the decent human being:

The two things that personally annoyed me the most were dropping a NYC clone in the middle of their great eastern fantasy setting, and having a whole subplot about benders vs regular human that was pretty much straight up ripped off the X-Men. The fact half the characters from the first series were dead or didn't live in peace and happiness every second of their lives was the least of my problems. That kind of stuff is kind of expected when you do "one generation later" type of stories.

I can get the first part, although I think it ties into the "after the Industrial Revolution" theme of the series which caused something of a uniformization of cultures. I honestly think it "looks like NYC" because we know little of real-world examples of Far Eastern cities in the early 20s (which is roughly the technological equivalent of TLOK's setting). Japan was isolationist, China had not caught up technologically, and AFAIK most of Southeast Asia was colonized, so the only equivalent we have for this time and space are what we are familiar with, ie Western cities. I agree however that they did not put much effort in making the city "feel" really different from those established settings we know of.

The benders/non-benders drama is limited to the first season, and it is because it fits the thematic ensemble that goes over the four seasons with each one focusing on one kind of "political movement" for lack of a better word and why people should be wary of it. Season 1 is about populism with Amon, Season 2 is about religious fundamentalism, Season 3 is about Anarchy, and Season 4 is about fascism. "Us vs them" is one of the basic tenets of populism, and considering the setting it would have been hard to pick any other kind of divide within the society - especially as "Nation divides" and its consequences had been discussed in ATLA already with what the Fire Nation did to the Air and Water ones.

If anything, it is also a reverse of the usual XMen setup since in that case, the benders are not portrayed as outcasts, Amon nonbenders' are. But it is not the most original plot device, it is true; still, I feel like over the entire show they did not overly relied on it - it's basically gone once in season two.

Now the second part:

Remember when lightning bending was something that you could only do if you ere an absolutely elite firebender? Something that 3 people could do in the entire world with intense focus and training? And the whole process took tens of seconds to charge?

It's almost as if the Fire Nation had been depicted as an incredibly elitist, "might-makes-right" society in which the most powerful benders would frown upon teaching very advanced bending techniques to commoners, and it's almost as if at the end of ATLA the new Fire Lord comes in place with decidedly different opinions on how the society is supposed to go.

Remember when Metal bending was something ONE person in the entire would could do, and she only figured it out because she was absolutely desperate, had heightened senses due to being blind, and was absolutely desperate?
NAW MAN DAT SHITS EASY! NOW EVERY COP AND STREET THUG CAN DO IT!!

It's almost as if Toph's entire story arc past season 3 in the tie-in comics is about becoming a metalbending teacher to make sure that her art passes on to as many people as possible. And it's also almost as if she had a personal grudge about classism due to her upbringing.

It's also almost as if an invention will have a hard time spreading before it has been invented, but can very easily do so as soon as it has been theorized, but sadly in this case the inventor was not a teacher or a theorician focused on making it available to as many people as possi...oh. Wait.

Finally, it's almost as if there were 80 years between the two shows and that those years are clearly supposed to be the equivalent of the Industrial Revolution and its very quick technological progress during which some items went from incredibly rare and precious to commonplace.

[quote-"TheodoricFriede"]Remember when they decided that they wrote themselves into a corner with there only being 4 airbenders, so they just arbitrarily decided that a cosmic coincidence made more airbenders?[/quote]

It's almost as if there already was another case of "cosmic intervention" helping restore balance to the world when Aang learned energybending to defeat Sozin. It's almost as if the whole show is based on the cosmos ensuring that there is a balance between the four elements with the avatar rotating from one element to another to ensure no element overcomes the other. It's almost as if the Fire Nation's whole plan to disrupt the cosmic balance in ATLA was to kill the avatar. But I agree, it is a real subtle plot point, it's not as if it's explicitly stated in the opening of every single episode of ATLA, you need to be really focused to get it.

[quote-"TheodoricFriede"]Remember when they decided that the Avatar was actually an evil concept?[/quote]

It's almost as if it is never stated anywhere and you invented that because you are hateful and pathetic.

[quote-"TheodoricFriede"]God the more I remember of this awful show, the more I wish I never watched it.[/quote]

It's almost as if you shouldn't have given you didn't understand anything of it.

[Alienmorph]

I can get the first part, although I think it ties into the "after the Industrial Revolution" theme of the series which caused something of a uniformization of cultures. I honestly think it "looks like NYC" because we know little of real-world examples of Far Eastern cities in the early 20s (which is roughly the technological equivalent of TLOK's setting). Japan was isolationist, China had not caught up technologically, and AFAIK most of Southeast Asia was colonized, so the only equivalent we have for this time and space are what we are familiar with, ie Western cities. I agree however that they did not put much effort in making the city "feel" really different from those established settings we know of.

No, it's more because one of the showrunners apparently really really likes gangster movies, from what I know. You could have based Republic City on something like, say, Shangai or Hong-Kong at the beginning of the 1900s. Or take inspiration from the many, many fantasy cities that exist in many, many fantasy setting, and then work with the designs and architectures of the TLA/LoK setting to make it your own.

The benders/non-benders drama is limited to the first season, and it is because it fits the thematic ensemble that goes over the four seasons with each one focusing on one kind of "political movement" for lack of a better word and why people should be wary of it. Season 1 is about populism with Amon, Season 2 is about religious fundamentalism, Season 3 is about Anarchy, and Season 4 is about fascism. "Us vs them" is one of the basic tenets of populism, and considering the setting it would have been hard to pick any other kind of divide within the society - especially as "Nation divides" and its consequences had been discussed in ATLA already with what the Fire Nation did to the Air and Water ones.

If anything, it is also a reverse of the usual XMen setup since in that case, the benders are not portrayed as outcasts, Amon nonbenders' are. But it is not the most original plot device, it is true; still, I feel like over the entire show they did not overly relied on it - it's basically gone once in season two.

The "Us vs Them" is the base of pretty much every radical group, not just populism. Usually extremists just want people to blame for their problems and make excuses while it's cool do to so. Anyway, staying on-topic, I get what you're saying, but in a way it makes it ever worse. Because the closest to an overarching plot thread that there is Korra herself, and the Spirits Realm stuff, while every season has a more one-off main villain to take down and everything feels made up as they went, mostly because to a major degree it was. Also because of that there's a lot less nuance. Remember how TLA made sure to show even most people in the Fire Nation weren't unredeemable suprematists, and how some of the most messed up characters in the series were non-firebender (see the blood-bending hag)? There's a lot less of that... and I wouldn't necessarily be too critical about it, if the series' predecessor wasn't so much better written. Again, I still think LoK is not an entirely awful series, but every time you compare it with its precessor...

And it's not even a case of "nostalgia goggles"... I didn't see TLA until years after it first passed on television, and jumped right into Korra afterwards.

[Vol]

Oil's dropped below $0. People are being paid to store it now, and presumably speculators got fucked really hard.

Kinda funny compared to all the wars and such for the stuff. In a really grim, weary sense.

[TheodoricFriede]

Oil's dropped below $0. People are being paid to store it now, and presumably speculators got fucked really hard.

Kinda funny compared to all the wars and such for the stuff. In a really grim, weary sense.

I got out of oil (mostly) months ago!

And I'll probably get back in oil for the inevitable upswing!

[Vol]

Assuredly! Once this corona tyranny is over, gas will be dirt cheap, so people'll gobble it up, and the price will go through the roof, and maybe we'll get some new taxes on it, and some folk will make a ton of money.

[TheodoricFriede]

Assuredly! Once this corona tyranny is over, gas will be dirt cheap, so people'll gobble it up, and the price will go through the roof, and maybe we'll get some new taxes on it, and some folk will make a ton of money.

Beyond that you have to remember that it takes the oil machine a while to get back up and running.

So even with a massive surplus, we will be close to a shortage within a week of having to rely on reserves.

[Vol]

There's a point to be made about the exponential costs and labor required to effectively eradicate domestic production of everything, as opposed to not doing that, and how oil plays into it all, but eh. Americans as a group will hop back into their cars and demand their services, and the crude must flow.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 9170501639

Took him 3+ years, but finally shut down the borders!

[TTTX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3d17JkTf-k

Okayyyyyy.....

[Mobius_118]

QT breakers are retarded. It's especially hilarious that it's the prepper group who ostensibly prepared for something like this that broke first.

Libertarian pussies. Can't even handle a little social distancing.

[Vol]

Today's paper is a celebration of authoritarianism. Multiple articles, talking about how wonderful a plan for the tri-state area is, one that involves the government randomly testing and then questioning civilians. Didn't see the word "voluntarily" in there, but hey, surely the government would never forcibly detain and interrogate a US citizen. One editorial was about how Big Brother is a good thing and we need to not worry about our rights because look at how efficient China "was" in "stopping" their outbreak. Puffed up the social credit score system and face scanners. Shortest one was a half page on how forcing everyone with smartphones to download a tracking app that reports movement information directly to the government is a great and noble thing, and how awful it is that people aren't installing it other countries, and how Apple/Google are working on our version.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Today's paper is a celebration of authoritarianism. Multiple articles, talking about how wonderful a plan for the tri-state area is, one that involves the government randomly testing and then questioning civilians. Didn't see the word "voluntarily" in there, but hey, surely the government would never forcibly detain and interrogate a US citizen. One editorial was about how Big Brother is a good thing and we need to not worry about our rights because look at how efficient China "was" in "stopping" their outbreak. Puffed up the social credit score system and face scanners. Shortest one was a half page on how forcing everyone with smartphones to download a tracking app that reports movement information directly to the government is a great and noble thing, and how awful it is that people aren't installing it other countries, and how Apple/Google are working on our version.

It's an interesting time when the media class it the one so utterly dedicated to bringing about Chinese style authoritarianism.

Guess Xinny the Pooh's money was well spent.

[Mobius_118]

It's a pandemic. If you're so confident that it's overblown go to one of those billionaire backed rallies, catch it, and see how it really is.

Fuck sake. I've rarely seen retardation on a personal level such as you, GAC.

[TTTX]

It's a pandemic. If you're so confident that it's overblown go to one of those billionaire backed rallies, catch it, and see how it really is.

Fuck sake. I've rarely seen retardation on a personal level such as you, GAC.

even without a pandemic China does that kind of stuff all the time we don't hear about normally because of the propaganda and the western companies really wants China's money.

China is a dictatorship much like Russia still is, they just pretend to be friendly to get more business and money.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

It's a pandemic. If you're so confident that it's overblown go to one of those billionaire backed rallies, catch it, and see how it really is.

Fuck sake. I've rarely seen retardation on a personal level such as you, GAC.

Because something being severe makes gleeful support of authoritarian measures acceptable.

Yep. You sure do sound like someone who cares about freedom and has principles. Hearing I disagree with authoritarian measures must AUTOMATICALLY mean that I think it's no big deal.

I've got a challenge for you mobius. Try and describe my position. My ideals. If you can describe it accurately without any of your spittle laced invective you'll genuinely surprise and impress.

[Mobius_118]

I care about people not dying because you wanted to go to Applebees.

The disease is highly contagious, doesn't care what your motivations are, and will end the ones who decided to break QT because they weren't mentally prepared for isolation. Better pucker up, bitch. 2nd wave that comes with botched containment, like trump's decisions to disband the pandemic response teams, comes with a higher casualty rate.

I don't have to tell you what your motivations are, libertarian. You're all talk until something bad happens. Then you're a bitch, just like regular conservatives. You value profit over everything else, neglecting the fact that millionaires and above are suckling to socialist ideals like government bailouts. If you actually are as wealthy as you say you are, then you're a part of the problem that you blubber so much about.

Same challenge to you. It's highly probable you'll fail.

[Mazder]

Just a visual example of why you should always check your perspective.
And, yes, that includes looking at the bad to try and find good in it, even if there is a slim chance there is always a perspective that might be misguided or improperly represented.

I know I am bad at being impartial/looking for sources and shit, but I think that anyone should recognise the danger of getting all info from one place.

Also I like the image and thought it was more fitting here.

[Mobius_118]

Dude, trump wants people to shoot up Lysol.

I look at the other side and see nothing but mental health issues. QT breakers who threaten everyone else, hoard TP, and worship to their golden calf like he's a god.

He pushes a drug that he has financial stake in which kills people. He wants people to shoot up bleach. This isn't even debatable.

[TTTX]

Dude, trump wants people to shoot up Lysol.

I look at the other side and see nothing but mental health issues. QT breakers who threaten everyone else, hoard TP, and worship to their golden calf like he's a god.

He pushes a drug that he has financial stake in which kills people. He wants people to shoot up bleach. This isn't even debatable.

says the guy who wants the opponents of his political party, who he believes in unconditionally, to die and leave his party as the sole political power in the USA.

[Mazder]

Dude, trump wants people to shoot up Lysol.

I look at the other side and see nothing but mental health issues. QT breakers who threaten everyone else, hoard TP, and worship to their golden calf like he's a god.

He pushes a drug that he has financial stake in which kills people. He wants people to shoot up bleach. This isn't even debatable.

And looking for the alternate perspective doesn't mean support for that perspective.
And the image was not a reaction to the ongoing conversation. If it was, I would have used the reply feature.

My take with the image I posted as a side-path to the current topic, yes he's a fucking moron. He's also eating up as much press time as possible so he doesn't have to answer too many questions, he's also using it for publicity, most likely. I see as much a calculated move as the ramblings of a moron.
Do I agree with him, FUCK NO. Do I think he's 100% rambling? Maybe not.

Even then the image I posted wasn't in reaction to your conversation so TBH he's a fucking morn still.

The image was more a "in general use this to stop one's self accidentally falling into the trap you might accuse of your rivals".

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I care about people not dying because you wanted to go to Applebees.

The disease is highly contagious, doesn't care what your motivations are, and will end the ones who decided to break QT because they weren't mentally prepared for isolation. Better pucker up, bitch. 2nd wave that comes with botched containment, like trump's decisions to disband the pandemic response teams, comes with a higher casualty rate.

I don't have to tell you what your motivations are, libertarian. You're all talk until something bad happens. Then you're a bitch, just like regular conservatives. You value profit over everything else, neglecting the fact that millionaires and above are suckling to socialist ideals like government bailouts. If you actually are as wealthy as you say you are, then you're a part of the problem that you blubber so much about.

Same challenge to you. It's highly probable you'll fail.

You were completely unable to categorize me accurately. Congrats. You proved yourself a fanatic.

You on the other hand genuinely believe in your ideals. As reprehensible as I find them. You believe that the goals you support are good and just. That honestly the opposition isn't just opposition but malevolent.

You think Trump is an evil idiot and that the republicans are evil fatcats or stupid uneducated rednecks. Whatever faults exist in the democratic side to you they pale in comparison to the opposition.

You think the US is socialist because of a few sources that you trust despite the words of many other sources *and* other people here. You view socialism as a good thing and have at times used "Capitalist" as an insult.

You also have at several different occasions wished violence and death upon your political opposition.

[Mobius_118]

says the guy who wants the opponents of his political party, who he believes in unconditionally, to die and leave his party as the sole political power in the USA.

They're doing a great job killing themselves. And since according to their mental madness healthcare is a privilege, we allow these rebels to kill themselves. They'll be making patriotic choking noises in a couple weeks, and that'll be that.

They're not patriots. They're not protesters. They're terrorists, carrying weapons and blocking access to hospitals. They'd go door to door coughing on people if they knew 100% they wouldn't be greeted with a .45 to the head.

But hey, I'm the bad guy because I think they're too stupid to vote, and fast approaching the "too stupid to exist" level. Like I said they just did a fantastic job killing themselves.

You were completely unable to categorize me accurately. Congrats. You proved yourself a fanatic.

You on the other hand genuinely believe in your ideals. As reprehensible as I find them. You believe that the goals you support are good and just. That honestly the opposition isn't just opposition but malevolent.

You think Trump is an evil idiot and that the republicans are evil fatcats or stupid uneducated rednecks. Whatever faults exist in the democratic side to you they pale in comparison to the opposition.

You think the US is socialist because of a few sources that you trust despite the words of many other sources *and* other people here. You view socialism as a good thing and have at times used "Capitalist" as an insult.

You also have at several different occasions wished violence and death upon your political opposition.

Chief example here of someone too stupid to exist yet continues to.

[Mobius_118]

Don't call me a fanatic when you parrot the libertarian mainlines and conspiracy theories, you fucking psychopath.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Don't call me a fanatic when you parrot the libertarian mainlines and conspiracy theories, you fucking psychopath.

You are a fanatic dear.

You also did nothing to refute my characterization of you. I based my evaluation of you on your behavior here. Your characterization of me seemed to have more to do with whatever "Enemy label" you've attached to me than any actual analysis. Everyone here can see how hateful a person you are. Everyone here can see what you really are Mobius.

[TTTX]

They're doing a great job killing themselves. And since according to their mental madness healthcare is a privilege, we allow these rebels to kill themselves. They'll be making patriotic choking noises in a couple weeks, and that'll be that.

They're not patriots. They're not protesters. They're terrorists, carrying weapons and blocking access to hospitals. They'd go door to door coughing on people if they knew 100% they wouldn't be greeted with a .45 to the head.

But hey, I'm the bad guy because I think they're too stupid to vote, and fast approaching the "too stupid to exist" level. Like I said they just did a fantastic job killing themselves.

while your side make safe spaces (basically segregation) and basically ready to kill people or push people out who disagree with them.

if your party ever takes control all I see is Big Brother and concentration camps, Hitler, Stalin and Mao would be proud, because absolute power will always bring out the worst in people not matter where their ideals fall, because there is always a Hitler, Stalin and Mao ready to take control and ruin everything, EVERY SINGLE TIME HISTORY HAVE PROVEN THAT FACT OVER AND OVER EVEN BEFORE DEMOCRACY WAS A THING.

[Mobius_118]

The opposition from trump and his supporters is malevolence. Seriously. Breaking QT, suggesting that we sacrifice the weak, cutting off their very own constituents? The GOP really sucks at not appearing malevolent when they do malevolent shit.

Trump just suggested, in all seriousness, that injecting bleach would kill COVID-19. He is an idiot. Republicans? Open your wallet. Either you're rich and continue to benefit from those government bailouts, or you're poor and you'll continue to get buttfucked by the rich. There is no middle class anymore. Meanwhile trying to make healthcare a right? Not bankrupting people or having people not be covered? Wow. Such heresy.

And the US is a Socialist/Capitalist hybrid. The only one here to try and actually debate it was a white supremacist. Fuck that guy.

And oh no...I think traitors should be executed. You know, like what trump has advocated. However my assertions are based on law. His is based on nothing but his petty mind. And I think that in self-defense if I get accosted by trump supporters they'll get a measured response.

You're still a libertarian who touts conspiracy theories and Red pill fuckery. The real asshole here is you. And ya boy trump still advocated bleach. Go follow his advice.

while your side make safe spaces (basically segregation) and basically ready to kill people or push people out who disagree with them.

if your party ever takes control all I see is Big Brother and concentration camps, Hitler, Stalin and Mao would be proud, because absolute power will always bring out the worst in people not matter where their ideals fall, because there is always a Hitler, Stalin and Mao ready to take control and ruin everything, EVERY SINGLE TIME HISTORY HAVE PROVEN THAT FACT OVER AND OVER EVEN BEFORE DEMOCRACY WAS A THING.

What news have you been watching? The only ones ready to kill, and have done so before, are the trump supporting right wing loonies.

Trump's party HAS taken control. We have concentration camps now. He wants absolute power, and he's close to getting it. He runs actual rallies, has a cult of personality, and has actually frothed up his supporters into committing violence against anyone who doesn't support him. The latest, with the QT protests? That's inciting insurrection against lawful state orders.

Yet I'm the dangerous one. Jesus fuck, man.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

And the fanatic continues his crusade into the dark. Certain in his own righteousness. Utterly unable to conceptualize the idea that he might be wrong. That things might be more nuanced than he believes them.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt...

And yeah those crazied commies haven't been attacking AAAAAAAAAAANYONE at all. No bike locks. No Scalise shootings. None of that. The communists neeeeeever ever do anything violent.

Mobius would know. He knows that roads are socialist after all.

[Mobius_118]

2-3 incidents of left-wing violence VS 100's of right-wing violence incidents.

"OH GOD THOSE LEFTIES ARE VIOLENT WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

I'm far more concerned about the right wing psychopaths that have become emboldened because of trump. You know, the ones that tout the swastika and call for the cleansing of the land of all non-white, non-christian folk, and have committed far more violent acts. Them, and their dear leader who openly calls for violence against political opponents. On live TV.

I'm no fanatic. I'm not joining in on the violence. I'm just prepared for when you and your kind go somehow more off the deep end.

You're nuts, man. You keep calling me the fanatic, but you've been far more insane than anything I could approach. Maybe you should take your bleach injection and go sleep off your impotent rage.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I'll let the people here be the judge of that Mobius.

I'm an ass. I like to shitpost. But I'm not a fanatic. You've managed to go to the point where even people that nominally agree with you think you're cracked.

You don't see me calling Sine or Mazder or TTTX fanatics. Nope. I save that for you because you're the only person here it is an accurate descriptor for.

[Alienmorph]

I don't even consider most american "liberals" leftist anymore. Not the very phanatical outspoken ones at least. Extremists look all the same to me, bunch of assholes who are mad the world doesn't spin the way they like it, and will lie, blame-shift and try to distort the truth whenever it's convenient to them.

And it sucks double, because Trump IS an awful person, and there ARE still lots of fucked-up injustices in western society that need to be exposed and dealt with.

You know what is NOT gonna help in that regard tho? Throw an years-long temper tantrum, give in to the hate and prejudice you claim you want to fight, and make excuses for why it's cool when YOU do it to people you don't like.

I have a slightly less grim view than what TTX just exposed tho, but only because I see the average Twitter-addicted, man-bashing american "liberal" being so belligerant and self-absorbed that once the BadOrangeMan.TM is no longer in office thei're probably just going to turn on each other since the're no longer that big common enemy to rally them up. Happened in my country too... the italian Left has basically been at war with itself ever since the last Berlusconi-lead goverment went kaput and they lost their favorite target. And the italian Left is nowhere near to as phanatical and power-hungry as what I've seen the american's being.

What happens after all the crazy fake liberals will have eaten each-other tho... that's anyone's guess. Things might get better, as people realize political radicalization didn't accomplish shit, or there might be one or two assholes emerging from the chaos and making things even worse... like it's also happening in my country now.

Either way, it might be a good idea to stop with the "us versun them" bullshit and stop thinking you're infallible human beings just because you didn't vote for Trump.

[TTTX]

What news have you been watching? The only ones ready to kill, and have done so before, are the trump supporting right wing loonies.

Trump's party HAS taken control. We have concentration camps now. He wants absolute power, and he's close to getting it. He runs actual rallies, has a cult of personality, and has actually frothed up his supporters into committing violence against anyone who doesn't support him. The latest, with the QT protests? That's inciting insurrection against lawful state orders.

Yet I'm the dangerous one. Jesus fuck, man.

Because anyone who advocates for a one party system is dangerous.

I don't even consider most american "liberals" leftist anymore. Not the very phanatical outspoken ones at least. Extremists look all the same to me, bunch of assholes who are mad the world doesn't spin the way they like it, and will lie, blame-shift and try to distort the truth whenever it's convenient to them.

And it sucks double, because Trump IS an awful person, and there ARE still lots of fucked-up injustices in western society that need to be exposed and dealt with.

You know what is NOT gonna help in that regard tho? Throw an years-long temper tantrum, give in to the hate and prejudice you claim you want to fight, and make excuses for why it's cool when YOU do it to people you don't like.

I have a slightly less grim view than what TTX just exposed tho, but only because I see the average Twitter-addicted, man-bashing american "liberal" being so belligerant and self-absorbed that once the BadOrangeMan.TM is no longer in office thei're probably just going to turn on each other since the're no longer that big common enemy to rally them up. Happened in my country too... the italian Left has basically been at war with itself ever since the last Berlusconi-lead goverment went kaput and they lost their favorite target. And the italian Left is nowhere near to as phanatical and power-hungry as what I've seen the american's being.

What happens after all the crazy fake liberals will have eaten each-other tho... that's anyone's guess. Things might get better, as people realize political radicalization didn't accomplish shit, or there might be one or two assholes emerging from the chaos and making things even worse... like it's also happening in my country now.

Either way, it might be a good idea to stop with the "us versun them" bullshit and stop thinking you're infallible human beings just because you didn't vote for Trump.

Sorry I have some depression that comes and goes and well it causes me to have a dark view of the world sometimes.

I do try to be positive, but life experience and studding history well let's just say I don't have much of positive look on life in general.

[Alienmorph]

Sorry I have some depression that comes and goes and well it causes me to have a dark view of the world sometimes.

I do try to be positive, but life experience and studding history well let's just say I don't have much of positive look on life in general.

I've been there too, and I'm one cynical motherfucker in general. I wasn't taking shots at you, just saying that I don't see a "reverse nazi" scenario happening, because the american leftists are more likely to sabotage themselves before they have a chance to make something that extreme come into being.

[TTTX]

I've been there too, and I'm one cynical motherfucker in general. I wasn't taking shots at you, just saying that I don't see a "reverse nazi" scenario happening, because the american leftists are more likely to sabotage themselves before they have a chance to make something that extreme come into being.

I know, I just wanted to explain where I came from (because I have been forced to that all my life, so now I just have to do it automatically).

I guess you are right, but there is always chance.

[Alienmorph]

Sadly there is. And even if they do end up shooting themselves in the foot, that's no guarantee whoever takes the spoils will be better, like I said. It's a damn mess, to say the least.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Sadly there is. And even if they do end up shooting themselves in the foot, that's no guarantee whoever takes the spoils will be better, like I said. It's a damn mess, to say the least.

The American left has gone off the rails a few times. Generally what happens is they lose a few elections. Get dangerously unstable. Then someone comes in to either reform them to a new workable idea. Like JFK or someone comes in to bring them more to a mainstream position that can secure them victory. Like Bill Clinton did in the 90's.

The American Left's problem is that it is prone to purity spiraling and going further and further left.

The American Right's Main weakness lies in the Fundamentalist Christians who tend to lead them down the path of being moral authoritarians. That also becomes untenable long term. They've also been dealing with the Neo-Cons as a lodestone for a while now. Though they've been rather shattered by Trump populism.

The big question with the American right is if Populism will survive Trump. He's incredibly popular within the Republican party and his national approval is middling. If the next Republican candidate is another populist (though likely more... diplomatic) then that faction could very well take over the party fully. If it ends up being a "Evangelicon" then they'll purity spiral just like the Dems are doing now and become irrelevant for a few election cycles again.

As a final note:

I don't actually want a 1 party country like Mobius does.

I want there to be a strong healthy opposition no matter who is in power. But the current Democratic party isn't strong or healthy. Hell I voted for Obama the first time around. There hasn't been a democrat worth voting for in the major elections since. If they do reform into more of a party of JFK it's entirely possible that they could win my vote.

And if the Republicans went Evangelical again they'd probably LOSE my vote.

[Alienmorph]

I mean... politics are supposed to be a continuos dialogue. When the system works the confrontation between the various factions is what keeps a country healthy and on par with the times. Haven't seen it work that way in my lifetime, but at least that's the theory. Instead what we keep seeying in America and Europe is a tendence to polarization and radicalization that's very much the opposite of healthy, because the last thing you want is one or two major parties holding your nation at (metaphorical) gunpoint wheter thei're in power or at the opposition. Again... living through that here, and I wouldn't wish it to a nation the size of the US, who's politics literally have repercussions on the whole damn planet. Or any other nation, for that matter.

[Mobius_118]

But I'm not a fanatic.

You go into a frothy rage and ignore reality.

Am I supposed to stand by and let my nation get raped? That's what you're doing, and you're cheering it on.

Until you can tangibly prove that trump has been good for anything, you'll still be the actual fanatic. Every accusation you push on me is a far more accurate description of yourself. You truly are a conduit of libertarian weakness.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

But I'm not a fanatic.

You go into a frothy rage and ignore reality.

Am I supposed to stand by and let my nation get raped? That's what you're doing, and you're cheering it on.

Until you can tangibly prove that trump has been good for anything, you'll still be the actual fanatic. Every accusation you push on me is a far more accurate description of yourself. You truly are a conduit of libertarian weakness.

There's plenty of proof of Trump doing good things. You have consistently refused to accept any of it. Literally any of it.

Mobius think about this for a second. There's no real way for you to be wrong in your world view. There's plenty of shit I know I'm possibly wrong about or things I might simply have a different opinion on than other people.

You don't accept that. You can't accept that. Makes your worldview sound a hell of a lot more fragile.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I mean... politics are supposed to be a continuos dialogue. When the system works the confrontation between the various factions is what keeps a country healthy and on par with the times. Haven't seen it work that way in my lifetime, but at least that's the theory. Instead what we keep seeying in America and Europe is a tendence to polarization and radicalization that's very much the opposite of healthy, because the last thing you want is one or two major parties holding your nation at (metaphorical) gunpoint wheter thei're in power or at the opposition. Again... living through that here, and I wouldn't wish it to a nation the size of the US, who's politics literally have repercussions on the whole damn planet. Or any other nation, for that matter.

If nothing else both the major parties in the US eventually going crazy and losing support tends to send their moderates back to the middle. The fact that we see saw every generation or so has kept things functioning for the most part though it's far from perfect.

That said perfect doesn't exist and more harm has been done in the pursuit of some utopian dream than just about anything else. I don't really like huge parts of our system. But it's usually functional enough so you take what you can and try and incrementally improve the rest.

[Sinekein]

No, it's more because one of the showrunners apparently really really likes gangster movies, from what I know. You could have based Republic City on something like, say, Shangai or Hong-Kong at the beginning of the 1900s. Or take inspiration from the many, many fantasy cities that exist in many, many fantasy setting, and then work with the designs and architectures of the TLA/LoK setting to make it your own.

Then I assume you would have had a different technological level. Shanghai or HK have caught up now, but in the beginning of the century they were not as technologically-advanced as the Western towns we are familiar with. I honestly have no idea what steps they went through until today where they look relatively similar to their Western counterparts, globalization and all.

And Bryke creating worlds due to what they like was also true with ATLA - they like Eastern martial arts movies. The problem is that while the effort they put in creating the ATLA-verse is clearly visible due to how unfamiliar it is, little details don't stand out as much in TLOK because the world is becoming less alien to viewers. It might be due to lack of inspiration or laziness, but it might also serve to show that with technological advancement humanity tends to become more homogeneous. Especially since the technologies that are developed in TLOK are roughly the same that exist in our world.

Finally, I think the creators' strength lies in the smart use of familiar tropes, not in the creation of groundbreaking new ideas, so creating a Far Eastern Diesel Punk (of which I personally know absolutely no reference) setting would maybe be just out of their league - and out of what they actually care for.

The "Us vs Them" is the base of pretty much every radical group, not just populism. Usually extremists just want people to blame for their problems and make excuses while it's cool do to so. Anyway, staying on-topic, I get what you're saying, but in a way it makes it ever worse. Because the closest to an overarching plot thread that there is Korra herself, and the Spirits Realm stuff, while every season has a more one-off main villain to take down and everything feels made up as they went, mostly because to a major degree it was. Also because of that there's a lot less nuance. Remember how TLA made sure to show even most people in the Fire Nation weren't unredeemable suprematists, and how some of the most messed up characters in the series were non-firebender (see the blood-bending hag)? There's a lot less of that... and I wouldn't necessarily be too critical about it, if the series' predecessor wasn't so much better written. Again, I still think LoK is not an entirely awful series, but every time you compare it with its precessor...

And it's not even a case of "nostalgia goggles"... I didn't see TLA until years after it first passed on television, and jumped right into Korra afterwards.

The production was obviously more chaotic than it was for ATLA - but I think Nickelodeon shares the blame here, they didn't give them the same room to work than they did for ATLA. Now giving writers too much room is not always the answer (Game of Thrones) but in their case they already had shown what they could do over several seasons.

As for the nuance...I don't know, it was relatively easy to add nuance to ATLA in a sense because in the background you had a fairly black-and-white setting in Aang vs Ozai - no matter how much nuance you added, you still had that one to fall down onto. TLOK does not have a clear antagonist for Korra to face anymore due to Aang's victory, so the villains motivations already have nuances. The problem TLOK has is that in Amon's case at least I got the feeling he got some extra gratuitous evil points just because without that, it would have been fairly hard to make the Avatar heroic in comparison and to finish the story with any kind of closure.

I've been reading the tie-in comics, both post-ATLA and post-LOK, and they do a good job of rounding up the universe and creating a continuity between the two shows. Aside from The Search which is entirely focused on Zuko and does not add much to the universe, the others depict the post-ATLA setting and do IMO a fairly good job at explaining how they went from Ozai's defeat to the start of TLOK. You have post-war tensions between Earth citizens and Fire Nation colonists (The Promise), how the Fire Nation reacted to the defeat during the war (Smoke and Shadow), how the Southern Water Tribe got its technological bump and the consequences of it (North and South), and two stories that show the place that will end up being Republic City (The Rift, Imbalance), with the latter explicitly showing Aang dealing with a conflict between benders and non-benders.

[Sinekein]

As for the current debate about the US political system, I just think that even if you try to "look at the bigger picture" and find some kind of middle line to focus on, it's impossible to look past Trump. He is the main reason there is such a rift between left and right. And it's really down to his personality, and how he has legitimized personal attacks and insults.

You could disagree with several of Bush or Obama's policies while voting for their party - at no point they ever said "you're with me or against me" in any form. They obviously tried to push their agendas, that's the job of any politician really, but they never did so by antagonizing, belittling or insulting whoever disagreed.

It's no surprise really that Ocasio-Cortez is one of the most popular Democrat politicians right now - she is all about Twitter flamewars and ad hominems against other parliament members. She might be the human opposite of Trump but she uses the exact same communication strategies.

Then again, Trump might manage to secure a reelection after suggesting American people to inject bleach into their veins to cure the virus. It would be a fitting result for a country in which the two most influent books are The Bible and Atlas Shrugged - one of the few 20th century books that make the Bible look modern.

[Mobius_118]

There's plenty of proof of Trump doing good things. You have consistently refused to accept any of it. Literally any of it.

Mobius think about this for a second. There's no real way for you to be wrong in your world view. There's plenty of shit I know I'm possibly wrong about or things I might simply have a different opinion on than other people.

You don't accept that. You can't accept that. Makes your worldview sound a hell of a lot more fragile.

What good has he done for the common man? Try as I might to corroborate your claim, he's done little to nothing to make the US a better place for anyone but the rich. You claim he's made it better, back it up.

Rattling the saber, alienating our allies, destroying everything that actually made the US great could be spun into positives by a person who hates the US. That's exactly what you do, GAC. Destroying the EPA? That means less government bloat. Cutting off unemployment benefits? That'll help people get employed.

Never-mind the fact that destroying the EPA means companies can dump waste directly into water supplies and poison the earth again.

Never-mind that cutting unemployment benefits means that people who can't work will die.

Alienating our allies? Yeah, that worked out for North Korea. How about getting cozy with dictators? How has that benefited us, especially when he's flip-flopping constantly on the matter anyway?

His entire handling of this pandemic is not justifiable at all. People are scared, dying, we have currently 24% of the world cases with 4% of the world population, and his suggestions include injecting bleach. A day later he says he was being sarcastic. I watched his briefing. He was 100% serious. That happened after he derides voting by mail despite decades of success. He's trying to kill the Post Office just to prevent it from happening because it would mean voters would have unfettered ability to vote.

Fuck him, fuck the GOP for enabling him, and fuck all his supporters for allowing this whole 4 year debacle. Fuck everyone who decided to not vote or throw their vote away on a dead gorilla.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yes yes Mobius. Your tired outrage remains tired and outraged.

"The Rich" were not the only people to benefit from tax cuts, the EPA IS a bloated government agency, and you're so far down the far left rabbit hole that everything and anything else gets washed away in a tide of ORANGE MAN BAD.

That's all you are Mobius. TDS. Nobody else here is pure TDS. Just you.

[Mobius_118]

I like how you say I have TDS when you can't even back anything up.

Nobody else here is pure TDS. Just you.

You said it best. You got the TDS bad.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I just need to quote your various posts on that one darling. You've been reeing about "EVIL TRUMPLER" for the last four years. Every single media narrative has been accepted wholeheartedly.

Every single "Oh they're gonna get Orange man NOW!!!" has been wholeheartedly embraced. Not a one has worked but like the fanatic you are you are absolutely sure that each and every new nontroversy will be the one that does it.

[Mobius_118]

Uh huh.

Any sane person can see that the last 4 years have been an unmitigated disaster because of that fat orange fuck. The only nutty one here is you.

[Sinekein]

"The Rich" were not the only people to benefit from tax cuts, the EPA IS a bloated government agency, and you're so far down the far left rabbit hole that everything and anything else gets washed away in a tide of ORANGE MAN BAD.

Honestly, I would enjoy seeing a comprehensive explanation of the good Trump has done because from the other side of the Atlantic nothing permeates.

The most recurring thing that is mentioned are the "tax cuts", but that seemed like a short-term decision, since it increased the US debt - and Covid might make it become obvious rather quickly (even though he can't be faulted for the pandemic).

Speaking of Covid, his management of the whole business looks abysmal. Suggesting something akin to drinking bleach is just mind-boggingly irresponsible. He has been supporting the protest gatherings that are bound to make the situation worse than it already is. And any critic of his management is met by some kind of insult and zero self-reflection. And I say that as someone that is not satisfied with how the crisis is managed in his own country, but at least they seem to slowly learn from their mistakes instead of denying their existence. Even though the opposition would obviously exploit mistakes, if there is one situation in which it is okay to admit an error, it is when something happens that has absolutely never been seen before, ever.

There is "the economy" or "the market", but he doesn't seem to be the one responsible for that, he just followed on the Obama mandates - and I would not praise Obama for the economy either, I don't think it's his actions that made it go back up after 2008. There has been a bump in 2017, but it looked an awful lot like the market getting back on track after the uncertainty of the election year.

The country does not look less divided than it was, on the contrary. He does not look like he has stopped mass shootings or won the war on drugs, or solved the consequences of immigration legal or not.

He has repeatedly showed he does not give two shits about climate change and has actively promoted everything synonymous with short-term profits and environmental damage.

He has obliterated the goodwill the US had accumulated on the foreign scene and his closest allies today can basically be split in two categories: capable authoritarians like Putin or Erdogan, or sycophants who try to be like him like Johnson or Bolsonaro. He seems utterly unable of cooperating, he always tries to bully his way, and honestly if the trade wars are any example it is not very successful.

So yeah, I would like to know what good he has done - and please, no "restoring white pride" or things like this, because if his only achievement is making white supremacists cool again, jeez.

I get that he "sticks it to the libs" on a daily basis, but that can't be a platform.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

We're not chomping at the bit for more war in the Middle East. We ARE taking action against the Chinese. The country was doing amazingly from an economic standpoint until the pandemic hit and whether people on the economic left or right like it or not a part of that had to do with lowering the barriers to new businesses by cutting certain onerous regulations.

His approval for the pandemic is still fairly high because though he's said things that were silly or dumb or far more things that could be interpreted that way a lot of people saw a president trying to reassure the nation and be positive about our situation. Hell it's why a lot of media outlets stopped airing the full daily briefings. It was having a measurable and positive impact of his approval.

A lot of Americans LIKE renegotiating our trade deals. Beyond that feel free to pick apart everything I've said but as someone who IS on that other side of the line I voted for Trump in 2016 for purely negative reasons. IE I would not vote for Hilary Clinton.

But for this year? For 2020? I'm voting for him for positive reasons.

I'm sure Mobius will come in frothing or insulting after this post but I'm going to ignore that. You asked me to break it down and this is at least a little bit of it. Feel free to tear everything I post apart because you disagree with my reasons or my opinions but you asked for honesty and you did it politely so I'm responding in kind.

[Vol]

Honestly, I would enjoy seeing a comprehensive explanation of the good Trump has done because from the other side of the Atlantic nothing permeates.

It hardly permeates here either. The near total of all our news outlets (Print, TV, and online) are owned by a couple corporations, who all have the same general interests, and those who attempt to report outside that narrow band of acceptable ideas are swiftly being removed from public spheres. As a metric for determining how good a job any given world leader is doing, the utter lack of intellectual and financial diversity in the news media makes whatever their message happens to be irrelevant.

The most recurring thing that is mentioned are the "tax cuts", but that seemed like a short-term decision, since it increased the US debt - and Covid might make it become obvious rather quickly (even though he can't be faulted for the pandemic).

Think of it like being adrift in a life boat. You find an umbrella floating along and grab it and thank Poseidon. You're still fucked, but at least you're slightly more comfortable.

The debt is never going to be paid off. After the housing crisis, and Congress handed off $10T to save the rich and powerful, that was the end of ever having a chance of it. The amount of spending cuts and/or growth needed to actually return to a fiscally balanced budget is impossible. People would scream bloody murder when their pet program is cut. It would take generations to actually generate the wealth to reduce it, and government is not going to consistently shrink that entire time, because something will happen that requires a ton of money, forever, because of war/empathy.

Speaking of Covid, his management of the whole business looks abysmal. Suggesting something akin to drinking bleach is just mind-boggingly irresponsible. He has been supporting the protest gatherings that are bound to make the situation worse than it already is. And any critic of his management is met by some kind of insult and zero self-reflection. And I say that as someone that is not satisfied with how the crisis is managed in his own country, but at least they seem to slowly learn from their mistakes instead of denying their existence. Even though the opposition would obviously exploit mistakes, if there is one situation in which it is okay to admit an error, it is when something happens that has absolutely never been seen before, ever.

My impression was that he'd been informed of actual medical practices that aren't yet approved for human use, and his layman's interpretation came out sounding nonsensical, because he probably did not understand the medical terms much less how it worked. Regardless, the lie that he suggested drinking bleach being so widespread goes back to my initial point. The masters of the press wanted that to be the takeaway, and so it was, regardless of any reality.

The country does not look less divided than it was, on the contrary. He does not look like he has stopped mass shootings or won the war on drugs, or solved the consequences of immigration legal or not.

Much like your point about the market, it's a trend that's continued regardless of who's in office. There are fundamental differences in us now that cannot be compromised. Our leaders are feckless and liars, who have no capability to do their job well, much less make large systemic changes. How can I possibly reconcile and share a country with someone who loathes me, personally, for my essential characteristics?

Otherwise, let's see...reduced involvement in the eternal sandbox, recognized ROC slightly more than past presidents, took the PRC to task (somewhat), began building the border wall, helped erode the credibility of the press further, right-to-try drugs, greatly improved domestic energy production, capped SALT deductions, attempted peacemaking with North Korea, snubbed some globalist gatherings, and otherwise been a bully to people who don't like us and want what we have. A fairly standard center-right president, lacking in eloquence, but not a neo-con. I suspect in his second term we'll see more of the fruits of his first term bloom, with companies, if not returning to the USA, leaving China, and hopefully more comprehensive action on immigration and healthcare, as he'll be more free to act in ways that will upset his base when they realize they must sacrifice some of their plenty too.

It will be comical, in 16 years or so, when he begins to be whitewashed, just like Bush, because the latest GOP candidate is surely the most evil creature to wear a man's skin.