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Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

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TheodoricFriede
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » June 22nd, 2020, 5:16 pm

Mazder wrote:United by hate?
I would not say as much.
I think there are one or two who HATE each other, maybe three, but the others have disagreements and then get over it.


This group is united by hatred of Bioware, hatred of star wars, hatred of the comic book industry, movie industry, hatred of political philosophies.

It's hate. Everything in this group is hate. I dont even bother talking about things I like anymore because its like dropping a flashlight into a tar pit.

The only place you dont see it is is the fucking porn thread.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 22nd, 2020, 5:22 pm

TheodoricFriede wrote:This group is united by hatred of Bioware, hatred of star wars, hatred of the comic book industry, movie industry, hatred of political philosophies.

Its hate. Everything in this group is hate.

The only place you dont see it is is the fucking porn thread.

I think hatred is for wanting to see something destroyed.
We don't want Bioware destroyed.
We don't want Star Wars destroyed.
We don't want the comic book industry destroyed.
We don't want the movie industry destroyed.
Political philosophies, only two I say we hate and they're at opposite ends of the extreme wings. So all, nah we don't hate.


Being angry isn't the same as HATING it.

Like, you and me. We argue plenty, sometimes we get very angry at each other. But I do not hate you, in fact I like you pretty much most of the time, it's only when we argue I get angry, but then I calm down and I go back to being okay with you again.
I think we are all kind of like that one way or the other for the most part.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » June 22nd, 2020, 5:33 pm

I'm not the guy who wastes time on hating on something he never liked to begin with.

I still like and own the original SW movies, I buy paperbacks of good comics more or less every month, and I will keep saying that even NOW there's a few good one hiding in the pile of of crap, I'm sad and angry to see videogame series and publishers I liked go bad, but I still love videogames as a whole, I still play them, and follow news and back good ones on Kickstarter regularly. And I have other hobbies like miniature painting that I really enjoy but that are very chill and I take long ass times to make progress on in any capacity worth mentioning.

I recognize my venting can make me sound like a Negative Nancy quite a bit, but that's what it is, venting. I still take the time to write my impressions on things I've had a good time with in the appropriate threads, but if inbetween there's a lot of stuff that makes me sad or angry... dunno what I can do about it, besides stop caring. But then I'd miss out on the good stuff too, because the only way to never get angry would be to be completely emotionally detached from everything, and good luck with that. I'm not even sure I'd want to do it.

And expecting a company or an industry that has gone bad to eventually be taken out of its misery and WANTING for that be how it end are two very different things. I like redeptions and rise from the ashes scenarios ALOT more than "life sucks and they you die" ones.

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Mobius_118
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 22nd, 2020, 6:49 pm

2 fascist wannabes in a relatively short time span is too coincidental.

Once is a statistical possibility. Now it's an anomaly.

It's rare to see someone try to say that the liberals are the fascists, when the conservative party in the US is pretty deep into fascist territory. That takes some true mental gymnastics.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Buffy
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 22nd, 2020, 7:57 pm

Mobius_118 wrote:It's rare to see someone try to say that the liberals are the fascists, when the conservative party in the US is pretty deep into fascist territory. That takes some true mental gymnastics.


Have you learned absolutely nothing from anything I said?

Alright, I'll play with you:

How is the US conservative party "deep into fascist territory"? Explain that to me.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 22nd, 2020, 8:24 pm

Also, you guys are bloody ridiculous for thinking I'm an actual fascist, despite me having said multiple times that I'm not one. I played devil's advocate for fascism, and I look at it in a more objective, less emotional way than you folks do, but that does not mean I'm a fascist. But somehow you guys can't get it through your thick little skulls that it's actually possible to be neutral about fascism and analyze it from an objective standpoint without actually being a fascist.

All of, literally all of you except for Vol and Cheesecake, abandoned your free speech principles in favor of banning me for daring to go against the accepted narrative on fascism. Which is hilariously ironic, given that taking away free speech or applying free speech only selectively is a very fascist thing to do. Next time you dare to say you're in favor of free speech, remember this conversation and how you reacted to it. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's honestly ridiculous how you're all frothing at the mouth the moment someone's saying anything positive or neutral about fascism. Would you guys have reacted the same way if spoke in favor of Marxist-Leninism, despite there being almost no difference between Marxist-Leninism and Mussolini's fascism? Think about that for a minute.

If you guys want to know where my real political alignments lay; I vote for this party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_for_Democracy

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TheodoricFriede
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » June 22nd, 2020, 10:59 pm

Buffy wrote:
If you guys want to know where my real political alignments lay; I vote for this party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_for_Democracy

Have you ever considered, for a moment, that you came here and, without an introduction, began spouting pro-facist ideals?

I mean lets go under the assumption that you are not our last fascist, Jablom. Someone who, unironically, made statements about how women belong at home, the Jews ruined the world, and black people are inferior to white people. (Read his past posts if you dont believe me.)

You roll up in this group, which in its entire existence has had maybe 2 new members, and start picking fights with everyone.

What the fuck did you think would happen? Whether you are a fascist or not, democrat or not, communist or not, you are a troll. This is a troll account, and you need to either start apologizing profusely and start over, or get the fuck out of here.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 22nd, 2020, 11:04 pm

TheodoricFriede wrote:Have you ever considered, for a moment, that you came here and, without an introduction, began spouting pro-facist ideals?

I mean lets go under the assumption that you are not our last fascist, Jablom. Someone who, unironically, made statements about how women belong at home, the Jews ruined the world, and black people are inferior to white people. (Read his past posts if you dont believe me.)

You roll up in this group, which in its entire existence has had maybe 2 new members, and start picking fights with everyone.

What the fuck did you think would happen? Whether you are a fascist or not, democrat or not, communist or not, you are a troll. This is a troll account, and you need to either start apologizing profusely and start over, or get the fuck out of here.


Read my posts again, realize I did nothing wrong and didn't pick a fight with anyone, and then maybe you'll understand I'm not the one who need to apologize.

But alright, I'll meet you halfway; I'm sorry you aren't capable of handling civil discourse like an adult. I'm sorry you got so incredibly triggered by wrongthink.

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TheodoricFriede
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » June 23rd, 2020, 12:03 am

Get the fuck out of here. You are not welcome.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 12:07 am

Buffy wrote:
Mobius_118 wrote:It's rare to see someone try to say that the liberals are the fascists, when the conservative party in the US is pretty deep into fascist territory. That takes some true mental gymnastics.


Have you learned absolutely nothing from anything I said?

Alright, I'll play with you:

How is the US conservative party "deep into fascist territory"? Explain that to me.


No, shut the fuck up. You come in here and immediately go into pro-fascist bullshit trying to blame liberals for the rise of fascism when the controlling party is in charge.

You are just here to troll, nothing more. There's no debate, there's no dialogue. The last nazi to roll through here got bounced out hard. You should be as well.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 12:21 am

Mobius_118 wrote:
No, shut the fuck up. You come in here and immediately go into pro-fascist bullshit trying to blame liberals for the rise of fascism when the controlling party is in charge.

You are just here to troll, nothing more. There's no debate, there's no dialogue. The last nazi to roll through here got bounced out hard. You should be as well.


Fascinating to see how rustled your jimmies are.

I never said liberals are to blame for the rise of fascism; socialists are. Millennial socialists, Antifa thugs and cancel-culture are the reason we see a rise of fascism and fascistic ideas. Fascism is an answer to communism; it is a response to the communist threat, always has been. Liberals are just useful idiots in this culture war.

You haven't answered my question though: How is the conservative right-wing in America in any way at all fascist? What do the Republicans and Trump have in common with actual fascism? You don't know, do you? Of course you don't. You're a lefty Millenial who uses words he doesn't know the meaning of. You have no idea what actual fascism looks like.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 12:24 am

You have zero idea who I am, son. This isn't something you should try.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 12:26 am

Mobius_118 wrote:You have zero idea who I am, son. This isn't something you should try.


I know way more about you than you know about me. For one, I know I am older than you, so I am not your "son", kid.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 12:41 am

You're sure about that? Really, truly sure? All I see is a manchild, scared of a little change in the status quo.

Someone who loves the idea of fascism has the mentality of a bully. A true coward. That's all you are.

Now quit wasting everyone's time and leave. Fascists have no place here.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 12:47 am

Mobius_118 wrote:You're sure about that? Really, truly sure? All I see is a manchild, scared of a little change in the status quo.

Someone who loves the idea of fascism has the mentality of a bully. A true coward. That's all you are.

Now quit wasting everyone's time and leave. Fascists have no place here.


100% sure. You're in your 30s, though you might be a bit older since you said you enlisted at the age of 26 in 2016, so that makes you at least 30 or 31. Still younger than me, though.

You are a Millenial from that Democrat hellhole you call Minnesota, you think you're a socialist without really understanding what socialism is about, which means you're probably a Bernie bro. You served in the military, you think Obama is one of the greatest presidents to have ever served the USA, you think Trump is a literal fascist and you think roads can't exist without socialism, which is honestly the funniest thing I've ever heard, truly cracked me up when I heard about that.

Now, answer me: why do you think Trump is a fascist? What does he have in common with actual real fascism and fascists of the past? Can you come up with anything substantial?

You keep avoiding answering my questions and instead keep insulting me while I have been nothing but civil. The true coward here isn't me.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 1:07 am

Don't care, fascist. Your questions, comments, concerns, bitches, gripes, and moans are nothing but echoes of a past that should have been stamped out.

And all of that? Pretty mundane. Pull out my personal address and make this interesting.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Grand Admiral Cheesecake » June 23rd, 2020, 1:15 am

Tbh you legit didn't answer his question. You always do this Mobius. Any time anyone you don't like poses a question you just call them a name and side step.

Does legit kinda reek of cowardice.

And now you're doing the internet tough guy thing as usual.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 1:18 am

Mobius_118 wrote:Don't care, fascist. Your questions, comments, concerns, bitches, gripes, and moans are nothing but echoes of a past that should have been stamped out.

And all of that? Pretty mundane. Pull out my personal address and make this interesting.


You care enough to keep replying to me.

Are you asking me to dox you? Are you sure you want me to do that? I was being kind to you, but it looks like you want me to go in balls deep. Are you sure you want me to do that, internet tough guy? After all, you have a son to worry about, I'm not sure if you're being a responsible dad here.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 1:42 am

Buffy wrote:
You care enough to keep replying to me.

Are you asking me to dox you? Are you sure you want me to do that? I was being kind to you, but it looks like you want me to go in balls deep. Are you sure you want me to do that, internet tough guy? After all, you have a son to worry about, I'm not sure if you're being a responsible dad here.


Ah you're one of those. Threatening a child that isn't even mine is kinda droll...

Nice try though. Quick, say something else that's publicly available here.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 1:53 am

Mobius_118 wrote:
Ah you're one of those. Threatening a child that isn't even mine is kinda droll...

Nice try though. Quick, say something else that's publicly available here.


Did you just admit you're a cuckold?

Don't worry Mobius, I won't harm your wife's and her boyfriend's son.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » June 23rd, 2020, 1:57 am

Not even an ex. Just a fling.

Try again.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 2:01 am

Mobius_118 wrote:Not even an ex. Just a fling.

Try again.


That doesn't make you any less of a cuckold, you simpleton.

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Vol
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » June 23rd, 2020, 2:05 am

Alright, locking this topic before I go to sleep. The amount of PMs I've gotten require a level of sobriety I am not at.

Joblom signed up in Dec of 2018, for context, preceded by Hawk and Sine in early 2018. Had roughly 50k+ bot signups since then, first actual person I've found was Buffy, who was in fact on BSN back in the old days. I'll open this containment thread tomorrow.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Buffy » June 23rd, 2020, 1:33 pm

Alright lads, it was fun, but Vol asked me to stop posting here because of the reaction I got, and I respect Vol, so I will.

For the record, I was Heretic Hanar back on the old BSN (never posted on the new BSN) and I got invited here by Cheesecake (he didn't know I was going to play devil's advocate for fascism though, so don't get mad at him). So now you know.

Maybe when you all are willing to have a normal conversation with me, I might return, but I will leave that up to you. I'm out! Cheers!
Last edited by Buffy on June 23rd, 2020, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vol
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » June 23rd, 2020, 1:38 pm

Morning all. Had a night to sleep off the emotions, I would hope. Spoken to people, the issue is solved, Buffy won't post anymore.

I won't stop discussion if you guys truly want to carry on, because I am, if nothing else, clinging to my principles. That anyone genuinely arguing for any position results in this kind of drama is disappointing, but as you guys do help pay for this site, and it's specific purpose is for us to chat and keep in contact, here we are. _I_ won't censor someone for espousing any opinion, so long as it's legal, but the consequence of that is that you lads can box them out. Thankfully, this has only happened twice now, which is not that bad for a group this size, given our wildly disparate personalities.

As for new members, I'm open to anyone you guys want to bring in, so long as this shit doesn't happen. Of course, anyone from the old CZ gets an automatic pass, and I _was_ open to anyone from BSN even. Though it has been literally years between the last real person signing up, as I've said, and I did send out PMs to everyone I could before the shutdown, so everyone who remembers or cares should be here already.

Edit: Got preempted while I was typing. But yes, that's the gist of it. Keep calm and carry on, lads.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » June 23rd, 2020, 1:53 pm

As for me, I stand by my opinions, but looking back at the stuff I've been posting in the last year or so, I'll admit to have been too much of a Negative Nancy, and will try tone down the ranting going forward. Don't think I'll ever be able to turn it off completely, because being invested into something means you're gonna get angry about it just as often as you can be happy because of it to, at least in my experience. But sharing only the negative aspects of our geekiness is not gonna do anybody any good.

And I AM gonna be out of this thread from now on, unless something truly egregious happens and I really feel like talking about it. So... see you on the rest of the board.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 23rd, 2020, 2:43 pm

Okay that's just not a resolution.
Nothing's actually been resolved as this is probably gonna happen again.

So what happens the next time a fascist comes in, are we gonna have to do this all over again? I think it is pretty clear that this group is against fascists and we don't want to talk about it or to them in any way other than to agree it's fucking shit and not worth our time.

The act of not allowing fascism or communism into this site isn't censorship if everyone is in agreement, which I think this latest discussion shows we pretty much are.
I don't want to have to spend my time and energy boxing out shit that we all agree shouldn't be here in the first place.

This isn't an efficient way of doing things.
Vol if you don't want to moderate then let someone else who will do it. Because right now there is no moderation, just sitting back and letting things happen.
I for one honestly do not know if I want to be a part of that.
I know I am not going to invite anyone I know onto this site as right now there is honestly no point. I know that if another fascist comes in this song and dance will just happen over again until we all just get too jaded to want to deal with it and they have their new platform. I honestly do not know any other way to say it other than you're just inviting this shit to happen again and again.

If that's truly "our" stance then I will begrudgingly accept as it's a group decision.
If it's a "Vol's stance because he's in charge" kind of thing then I have a much bigger decision to make and will probably take some time to think that one over.

It's not just about one fascist, it's about all of them. Doing nothing essentially gives them all access and, honestly, I don't think I want to be part of a group that allows fascists a proper platform right now.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Grand Admiral Cheesecake » June 23rd, 2020, 3:18 pm

That is without a doubt the most stereotypical modern British thing I've ever seen anyone post. Congrats on proving the meme accurate Mazder.

It was not unanimous. Most people were content to just block him. Some people like Vol and I didn't care. You were one of the people that lost your fucking shit because someone with wrong think posted.

No wonder people get arrested for fucking tweets in your country.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 23rd, 2020, 3:31 pm

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote:That is without a doubt the most stereotypical modern British thing I've ever seen anyone post. Congrats on proving the meme accurate Mazder.

It was not unanimous. Most people were content to just block him. Some people like Vol and I didn't care. You were one of the people that lost your fucking shit because someone with wrong think posted.

No wonder people get arrested for fucking tweets in your country.

So everyone performing an action of prevention is not a collective action against the thing.
Unanimous, no. But still pretty obvious.

2 vs 8, majority rules no fascist content. There, that was basically what it came down to.

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote:I still think everyone's being hyperbolic as shit about all this.

Fascism sucks ass and people should dog pile it for being the reprehensible shit it is.

But communism is even worse and still people will talk about it in better faith. It's maddening as someone who knows history and knows just how many bodies the two ideologies have stacked up like cordwood.

Also saying the thing we both agree on as reprehensible, in your own words, is now wrongthink when we both agree is just fucking dumb.
I just want it done faster than a big argument happening again, and again, and again.
You want them dogpiled, I want them dogpiled. I just want it done faster than wasting everyone's time with a "discussion" we all seem to pretty much agree on in principle of the ideology. We both agree we don't want that shit. You want to do that yourself, fine, not saying you can't. I just want us to all just have our time not wasted and we can have it done quicker next time if we actually had a mod that blocks that shit.

You may not care, fine.
I am asking the guy "in charge" to care.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby NCLanceman » June 23rd, 2020, 3:34 pm

Mazder wrote:It's not just about one fascist, it's about all of them. Doing nothing essentially gives them all access and, honestly, I don't think I want to be part of a group that allows fascists a proper platform right now.


If it makes you feel any better, his posting privileges have been revoked. Vol's stance on free speech notwithstanding, almost all of Buffy's posts are in this thread either trolling, insulting, or otherwise adding nothing to the art of civil discourse. At some point his posting privileges might be reinstated, but between then and there I recommend you use the block function.

The purpose of this thread is to allow for political debate. By it's very nature it's almost never going to be pleasant, so unpleasantness is to be expected. For those that wish to converse (civilly), the option is open for you join in. However, I'd like to remind you that this forum exists because of a game that's ten years old. We're all grown adults, and the power is in your hands whether or not you want to talk to people. Vol's put considerable time and effort into making the tools for that available.

Lastly, banning someone is a real option I really have here. I haven't quite decided on whether it's necessary to ban a man who can't speak, but it's worth remembering that the formula for an excommunication is "until he rights himself". He will be given the chance. If he doesn't, out the door he goes.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 23rd, 2020, 3:35 pm

Actually, you know what, fuck it.
Theo I've changed my mind. I now agree, we should just kill this thread and all politics on this site.
It's a waste of effort trying to get us all to be anything we're not.

EDIT: Was posted before NCLanceman's post went through. refreshing the page revealed it to me.
I still don't agree being that open is really going to keep things civil TBH.
This thread has pretty much done more harm than good. Probably just time to close it.
Last edited by Mazder on June 23rd, 2020, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Grand Admiral Cheesecake » June 23rd, 2020, 3:36 pm

And I'm asking Vol to continue to be liberty minded as he has been. If this forum turns into a place where people get banned for having the wrong opinions or for fucking DEVIL'S ADVOCATING the wrong opinions for the sake of argument it's not a place worth being in.

You want him to become a censor. A moral authoritarian because it would be more "Efficient".

Moral cowardice is the worst kind.

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NCLanceman
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby NCLanceman » June 23rd, 2020, 3:52 pm

Mazder wrote:This thread has pretty much done more harm than good. Probably just time to close it.


There's a reason I don't spend much time in this thread. Why would you argue politics on the internet with people you like?

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote:And I'm asking Vol to continue to be liberty minded as he has been. If this forum turns into a place where people get banned for having the wrong opinions or for fucking DEVIL'S ADVOCATING the wrong opinions for the sake of argument it's not a place worth being in.

You want him to become a censor. A moral authoritarian because it would be more "Efficient".

Moral cowardice is the worst kind.


Vol is as liberty minded as ever. To a large part, so I am I. And granted, I come around mostly when he has to vent to someone. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that. From where I'm sitting, up until Buffy's last three posts, we were at about par for the course for a serious discussion of fascism on the internet. Which I'd like to remind everyone is where the bar started here. However, directly attacking a man and his family is not in the realm of political discourse, it's being a asshole. Once again, the block tools are there for a reason, but that kind of low blow is unacceptable and is the reason I'm entertaining the thought.

But for real guys, why are you arguing politics on the internet with people you like?

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TTTX
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TTTX » June 23rd, 2020, 4:05 pm

NCLanceman wrote:But for real guys, why are you arguing politics on the internet with people you like?

If I remember correctly this thread was made for people who argued as it was a problem with Theo and Mob back in the day as they continued to get into fights over rather small matters and well once politics became more and more of thing in a lot of things people liked well they needed to well went and now we have a ME3 ending situation were things got worse and worse and finally things came to a head with Jombolo and Buffy with the Facist and well here we are.
the post is over, stop reading and move on.

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Vol
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » June 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm

This thread's purpose is containment, and by extension politics, which are so heavily infused in everything else right now. If the will of you guys is that this topic is locked, or made more focused, with extreme authoritarian opinions completely verboten as even thought exercises, then speak. I don't act unilaterally, no matter what I do or do not believe, unless there is a real threat to any of you or the existence of the site. Which, God be praised, has not happened.

So, speak up, all of you. Lurkers and active posters alike, put yourself on the record.

1) Do you want this topic locked? If so, how to handle political or quasi-political discussion in others?
2) Do you want this topic repurposed? If so, how?
3) Do you want fascism/Marxism/extremism in general banned? If so, in what manner of enforcement?
4) Do you want a moratorium on new users?
5) Do you want an effort made to find new users and expand the clan, or fade softly into the twilight?

Reality here is that we're like a dozen active users, tops, few lurkers, and a couple dozen people who may or may not ever stop by again. As admin, I want you guys around, as we've done for a decade now, for as long as we can. The RP group is still around, albeit in their thread down there, and others are still on Steam and such. But, since I clearly care about this group and you guys, I'm all ears.

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TTTX
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TTTX » June 23rd, 2020, 4:39 pm

Vol wrote:This thread's purpose is containment, and by extension politics, which are so heavily infused in everything else right now. If the will of you guys is that this topic is locked, or made more focused, with extreme authoritarian opinions completely verboten as even thought exercises, then speak. I don't act unilaterally, no matter what I do or do not believe, unless there is a real threat to any of you or the existence of the site. Which, God be praised, has not happened.

So, speak up, all of you. Lurkers and active posters alike, put yourself on the record.

1) Do you want this topic locked? If so, how to handle political or quasi-political discussion in others?
2) Do you want this topic repurposed? If so, how?
3) Do you want fascism/Marxism/extremism in general banned? If so, in what manner of enforcement?
4) Do you want a moratorium on new users?
5) Do you want an effort made to find new users and expand the clan, or fade softly into the twilight?

Reality here is that we're like a dozen active users, tops, few lurkers, and a couple dozen people who may or may not ever stop by again. As admin, I want you guys around, as we've done for a decade now, for as long as we can. The RP group is still around, albeit in their thread down there, and others are still on Steam and such. But, since I clearly care about this group and you guys, I'm all ears.

I'm going to be honest I'm only going to answer 3 and 5 as I'm going to be neutral on the others and I'm having a bit of a sickness moment going on these last few days.

answer to 3 well I think it's pretty obvious that most of us don't like Extremist/Facist/Marxism for whatever and I think not having these people around will create less hostility.

answer to 5, I think you should find new members or else this group will just go the way of the dodo, which I think will be sad.
the post is over, stop reading and move on.

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Mazder
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 23rd, 2020, 5:14 pm

Vol wrote:
1) Do you want this topic locked? If so, how to handle political or quasi-political discussion in others?
2) Do you want this topic repurposed? If so, how?
3) Do you want fascism/Marxism/extremism in general banned? If so, in what manner of enforcement?
4) Do you want a moratorium on new users?
5) Do you want an effort made to find new users and expand the clan, or fade softly into the twilight?

1)At this point it's probably the easiest solution.
Can't be arguments if the topic that causes them is removed.
So, maybe. I dunno I am still not certain.

2) If it is repurposed you'd need people to call the topic, keep people on topic and have people moderating the discussion so it doesn't go off topic. Personal attacks and stuff should warrant cooldowns, make it more like a debate structure if the political discussion is to be had.

3) If someone shows support, even if in a devil's advocate way that is not clear, then that should be met with warning as if someone who is new and actually does agree then they're justified in bringing more and more in, in their eyes. We don't want to create some weird hovel where the truly scummy types could come crawling in. I don't think anyone wants that.
If it gets to the point of an argument as it has in our examples we should be enforcing stricter measures. Soft locks, temp-bans. But we also need to outline what is and is not allowed. If we are against certain topics we should say so and they should be a part of the "rules" (if we are to have a brief outline on them that is), if not then we need to acknowledge that by not at least taking a stance we are technically extending an open invite to that type of extremism and we need to have an actual discussion on if we are open to that.

4) No. We should be open to new users, but new users also need to have a decent ruleset in place so they know what they're getting into.
Basically a "we are pretty ope but have umbridge with the extreme wings of either end of the political divide" at least shows that bringing up fascism of communism is not a light subject.

5) hopefully I'd like to find new users, but I think the site might be a little archaic for what we kinda use it for.
We kind of use it as a discord server already, just one we have 100% control over in all areas.
Seriously I think that if we did fade softly it'd be more along the lines of moving to a more instant form of communication.
Maybe we can use both but people seem more content here than on a discord so, I dunno.
I certainly don't wish for this place to go without a replacement in some fashion.

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Sinekein
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » June 23rd, 2020, 6:59 pm

Vol wrote:So, speak up, all of you. Lurkers and active posters alike, put yourself on the record.

1) Do you want this topic locked? If so, how to handle political or quasi-political discussion in others?
2) Do you want this topic repurposed? If so, how?
3) Do you want fascism/Marxism/extremism in general banned? If so, in what manner of enforcement?
4) Do you want a moratorium on new users?
5) Do you want an effort made to find new users and expand the clan, or fade softly into the twilight?

Reality here is that we're like a dozen active users, tops, few lurkers, and a couple dozen people who may or may not ever stop by again. As admin, I want you guys around, as we've done for a decade now, for as long as we can. The RP group is still around, albeit in their thread down there, and others are still on Steam and such. But, since I clearly care about this group and you guys, I'm all ears.


1) No. It's really one of the few places I have had mostly civil exchanges with some very conservative people.
2) Not really. Some time ago I might have said that pop culture debates and other ones might be split, but the line between the two is blurry now.
3) Not really. GAC and Mob routinely call themselves a commie/fascist here, so they would be on the list, and I don't think it is the intent. The Foe system works well.
4) Basically just a "background check" - ie them presenting themselves and saying where they come from
5) Don't care.

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Alienmorph
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » June 23rd, 2020, 7:29 pm

Okay, since we're all deliberating about this...

1/2 - Keeping a thread like this is probably the least hurtful solution. Outright cancelling it, with politics getting in the way of life now more than ever, sounds like a fool's errand to me, and might just mean we get more negativity and pointless arguining with the people who hang in here the most all over the rest of the board. Not sure how or if we could improve it or "repurpose" it;

3 - It's hard to tell on this. Don't want to close people's mouths, but I don't feel exactly forgiving to people going around claiming Mussolini was a great guy, and that I disagree only because I was brainwashed at school. Luckly we only got through that kind of situation twice, so maybe we could go for an "innocent 'till proven guilty" approach and let people express themselves, but bring the hammer down as soon as the nonsense piles up;

4 - Nah, just let peole introduce themselves, I'm not a fan of gatekeeping any more than I'm of censorship;

5 - If someone wants to seek people out, I don't see why not. I'm staying as long this place's around, either way, it's still out dinky little corner of the Web, no matter how screwy things get some times.

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Grand Admiral Cheesecake » June 23rd, 2020, 10:52 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKTUQzDFwW4

I know people never really ever bother watching any videos I post but I do think this one is informative.

Both the main people speaking were ardent Democratic voters a few years ago.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Rune » June 24th, 2020, 1:05 am

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Last edited by Rune on March 24th, 2021, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vol
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » June 25th, 2020, 12:22 am

The cultural revolution has moved onto the associated blame phase. Families, lovers, getting fired for the actions of the sinner in question. Gotta "draw a line" between you to be safe. As well as the standard progressive nature of statue removal. Plus a couple of the big name video game guys are getting taken down for saying the Forbidden Words years ago or being awkward with girls.

Blind empathy is, as we all know, the safest tact to take in the west right now. Or you might lose your job and get beat up. I mean, you might anyway for not being dedicated enough to the revolution, but platitudes are safe enough for now. It seems exhausting though, I never seriously considered the emotional component of the dogma of the left, so it's difficult to understand sometimes.

Edit: So my question is, those of you who lean left, do you genuinely still feel empathy for the people and causes that demand it of you, or is it a dry well, but intellectually you believe in the cause/claim, so you say it anyway?

And please keep giving input on what changes, if any, you want. It is rather important, apparently, given the volume of input I received in public and private about the drama.

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Sinekein
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » June 25th, 2020, 2:09 am

I'm a teacher in a poor neighborhood, the day I stop feeling empathy for people who have to live with discrimination I might as well quit my job.

Some aspects of the current protests bother me. Twitter courts that have replaced actual investigations (whether they are from police or journalists) are a huge problem, but the left is not the only one to blame with making Twitter so influential a medium while journalists as a whole lost credibility. I don't see it getting any better in the future. It's also used by many companies to avoid having to actually deal with a toxic workplace environment - they don't look at the root of the issue, and just publicly fire some people to try and get out with a clean image, that's just disgusting. In many cases (in the VG industry in particular) the pervs or harassers were completely enabled by their superiors who are now claiming they crossed a line and are severly being dealt with.

Statue removals have predictably gone stupid, but I don't care that much as it's mostly an American thing. There still are people proudly running the confederate flag and ignoring how offensive it can be, so it was a pipe dream to hope for a healthy debate on the place of various statufied figures. It is probably possible for the US to face the worst aspects of their history, but not under the current leadership considering its political pandering.

As a whole, I think statues encourage people to idolize public figures, and it is an extremely unhealthy thing to do as a rule.

Firings because of "not being dedicated enough" sounds like conservative paranoia though.

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Vol
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » June 25th, 2020, 10:48 am

I wanna dig into that. This may be related to one's take on hierarchies, now that I think about it. When I feel empathy, or receive it, there is tacit condescension in the expression. But in those interpersonal cases, that's irrelevant, because the fact that empathy is needed or given outweighs the loss of "face." When my father dies, I know I will be in tremendous emotional pain. I will try to be stoic, and fail, and so the empathy of friends/family will be called on to hold me together. And because I require that, and accept it, I'm lowering myself, I cannot deal with the pain totally alone. I look at that as a failing to control my emotions during a most trying time. But it's not a morally bad thing in that case, it's a very human, very positive interaction to come together to support someone in that state.

So from that perspective, it's fine to treat children with great empathy when they're very young, because they're not moral agents yet. They're children. Once they start growing up, however, it's untenable. You cannot both have adult autonomy and be immersed in constant empathy. They're mutually conflicting concepts. Meant to be temporary.

The biggest tragedy of all these recent events is that race relations in the US are not going to improve in my lifetime. There will be significantly more top-down enforcement of well-meaning, but unwise, racial policy, and it will foster a lot of hatred. Though apparently current births are now minority white, so maybe a "nation of minorities" will mellow out and find common purpose by the time we're old.

There's been many stories about people losing their jobs based around the protests. Most for speaking against BLM, some for being associated by proxy to someone who did, and some for not showing enough enthusiasm for the group. "White silence is violence" isn't an uncommon phrase right now. I would suspect it's, as you said, an easy excuse for getting rid of otherwise entrenched employees, but do you doubt at least one person's lost their job for not being outspoken enough?

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » June 26th, 2020, 6:54 pm

Welp the Democrat House voted to make the District of Columbia a state. Which is LITERALLY unconstitutional. But that's fine because this is about freedom and black rights and absolutely has nothing to do with getting two more Democrat seats in the Senate.

Thank merciful fuck that it will be shot down by Republican held Senate, because while there is assuredly some aspects of the republicans wanting to maintain control, it is also antithetical to what the intent of the District of Columbia was.

The United States is so screwed.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 26th, 2020, 7:23 pm

Why waste their time on making DC a state when Puerto Rico could fit that role?!?

Dumb move on Democrat's side there.

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TheodoricFriede
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » June 26th, 2020, 8:34 pm

Because Making DC a state would involve next to no effort, and still achieve their goal of stacking the deck in their favor.

Puerto Rico (aside from having voted against statehood in the past) is an economic death trap, and would be a huge detriment to the US if they ever were made a state.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » June 26th, 2020, 9:25 pm

That sounds like a very dumb provocation in election year. It's going to give an easy argument to Trump who claims that the Dems are trying to rig the election or to unfairly use Congress.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Grand Admiral Cheesecake » June 26th, 2020, 10:38 pm

Sinekein wrote:That sounds like a very dumb provocation in election year. It's going to give an easy argument to Trump who claims that the Dems are trying to rig the election or to unfairly use Congress.


That completely worthless impeachment says Hi.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » June 27th, 2020, 4:30 am

TheodoricFriede wrote:Because Making DC a state would involve next to no effort, and still achieve their goal of stacking the deck in their favor.

Puerto Rico (aside from having voted against statehood in the past) is an economic death trap, and would be a huge detriment to the US if they ever were made a state.

Which makes me wonder why you guys even bother holding on to the damn thing if it's such a money drain.

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote:
Sinekein wrote:That sounds like a very dumb provocation in election year. It's going to give an easy argument to Trump who claims that the Dems are trying to rig the election or to unfairly use Congress.


That completely worthless impeachment says Hi.

I mean, not entirely worhtless.
It gets the Dem's side talking about that rather than some of the shady stuff they're doing I'm sure.


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