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Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

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Mobius_118
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » November 24th, 2020, 10:02 pm

I don't measure economic strength based off Wall Street, but the DOW passed 30,000 for the first time. Seems the historical trend of Democrat administrations being good for the economy continues.

Vol wrote:
And so, if you control what people learn, the solution is very simple. Change the past, shroud it in vague evil and mystery, and then the present solutions speak for themselves.


From what I've seen, learning about the real history, not the white-washed bullshit that's been taught since forever, creates a better understanding of just how fucked up we all are. It's not being shrouded, the ugly truth is being exposed, and those that defend the cleaner versions of history don't like that.

Because history is written by the victor, and in the US the white man has been the victor, we learn more about how the Pilgrims and the Native Americans celebrated Thanksgiving, but not so much the smallpox blankets, the endless slaughter, the dashing of kids against rocks, mass rapes, the schools that basically tried to erase indigenous history and tradition.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » November 25th, 2020, 7:14 am

Yeah....us Brits are just gonna stay quiet on the whole "history written by the victor" thing.
A whoooole lot of revisionist style history was taught up until the generation below me, now they're only just really coming to terms with it, and of course the racists are not happy about it because "it's anti-Bri'ish innt?! ru'e Brittania and a'' tha'!"

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » November 25th, 2020, 7:42 am

Hey same here. Disagree with anyone who still holds onto the good old days and they start calling you a communist without realizing the stupidity of their own thoughts.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » November 26th, 2020, 12:54 am

Mobius_118 wrote:From what I've seen, learning about the real history, not the white-washed bullshit that's been taught since forever, creates a better understanding of just how fucked up we all are. It's not being shrouded, the ugly truth is being exposed, and those that defend the cleaner versions of history don't like that.

Because history is written by the victor, and in the US the white man has been the victor, we learn more about how the Pilgrims and the Native Americans celebrated Thanksgiving, but not so much the smallpox blankets, the endless slaughter, the dashing of kids against rocks, mass rapes, the schools that basically tried to erase indigenous history and tradition.

I didn't have the luxury of a white-washed education. Rather, we had yearly Holocaust classes. Also, American history was mostly wars and atrocities, again, repeated. Columbus bad, Revolutionary War, Indians fucked over, chattel slavery, Civil War, Europe colonies bad, something something, WW1, WW2, Nazis Nazis Nazis, then we'd be out of time in the semester. Over and over.

Sure knew a lot about Jews being murdered en masse, didn't know the Eastern Roman Empire existed until I was an adult playing a Total War game. Knew a bunch of ways the Huwhite Man oppressed and murdered blacks/Natives, didn't know they did the exact same things to each other until we came along.

A miserable, flagellant telling of history serves nothing good, and our standards are already circling the drain.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » November 26th, 2020, 5:01 am

...I always assumed I got a shitty education, because my teachers always told my class how chronically behind we were on everything.

But the more I learn about what other people seemed to get, the more I realized I had a kind of insanely good K - 12th grade education.

I was never denied history because it was seen as unpalatable.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TTTX » November 26th, 2020, 5:07 am

in Denmark back in my day we didn't get much history lesson outside of WW2, what I know of history is pretty much self taught.
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » November 26th, 2020, 7:00 am

Vol wrote:I didn't have the luxury of a white-washed education. Rather, we had yearly Holocaust classes. Also, American history was mostly wars and atrocities, again, repeated. Columbus bad, Revolutionary War, Indians fucked over, chattel slavery, Civil War, Europe colonies bad, something something, WW1, WW2, Nazis Nazis Nazis, then we'd be out of time in the semester. Over and over.

Sure knew a lot about Jews being murdered en masse, didn't know the Eastern Roman Empire existed until I was an adult playing a Total War game. Knew a bunch of ways the Huwhite Man oppressed and murdered blacks/Natives, didn't know they did the exact same things to each other until we came along.

A miserable, flagellant telling of history serves nothing good, and our standards are already circling the drain.


From what you describe, you had a white-washed education, just a Western-centric one.

The celebration of Columbus is a total absurdity, today it has been proven that he was a couple centuries too late to cross the Atlantic - the Vikings did it first. What he did was starting to colonize the continent, it's not historical revisionism to say so - and while there is most definitely a scale of ruthless to peaceful when it comes to American colonists, Columbus was very far on the "ruthless" side. Not to mention how dumb to say he "discovered" America - there were millions of people living there already. What Columbus did was organize the first meeting between European and American civilizations, and for a variety of reasons - some he did not control, such as diseases, some he did control, such as mass slaughters and slavery - it ended up killing hundreds of thousand native americans, if not more.

Re: the vikings, that's also a proof of western-centrism. Even Scandinavian cultures are depicted as "other", which explains the many, many misrepresentations of Nordic culture we have. For many, "Viking" = "Conqueror" - and that's absolutely not true, at best Northerners were colonists planning to settle, but they never planned to take control over large territories, they did not have the people. And that explains in part why many think an Italian, not a Northerner, was the first to cross the Atlantic on a boat. Sounds more glorious that way.

American history is no different from other histories really. All countries have had a lot of blood in their past. When you think it was peaceful, it's probably because not much was written and we lost traces of the shit.

And you not knowing about the Byzantines is 100% Western-centric, because the colonist powers - Spain, England, France - always thought Roman Empire = Rome & Italy. Ignoring the fact it also was in the East of the Mediterranean, that it split at some point and that the Western half collapsed super quickly while the Eastern one endured for 1000 more years.

As for the "differential treatment" for white colonization, well, it's because it has been more common for white countries to fuck shit up in non white ones than the other way, simple as that. Not to say white populations never were treated badly in the past by various other ethnicities, but when you start a list of the most horrible shit in history with two columns, one "did it", and one "suffered it", then white people are way more often in the "did it". The Holocaust, Conquistadores, Belgian Congo, and yes, what Native Americans got.

Does not mean that everyone else on Earth has been sheepingly nice, mind you. Or that you as a person are responsible for the atrocities. It just means that people that look like you, in the past, were massive cunts. You can acknowledge it without endorsing it.

But those that are hellbent on patriotic fervor and pride and honoring thy ancestors don't take it well when people just show them historical facts that clash with the stupid, romantic image they have of the past. So they reject it instead of questioning it.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » December 1st, 2020, 11:13 pm

I love how almost every election fraud case gets either tossed or shows more votes for Biden.

It's almost as if...dare I say...the Democrats didn't steal the election and trump legit lost, showing the world that we're not quite the new Nazi nation quiiite yet.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » December 2nd, 2020, 6:40 am

That is pretty amusing I will say. Doesn't change the fact the US remains a mostly divided country and that the Dem should begin to buil back up some bridges and stop accusing anyone they dislike to be nazis. But the fact Trump keeps being a waste of time, space and money to the very end, just to do this needless recount IS worth a chuckle or two.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » December 2nd, 2020, 4:49 pm

I honestly cant imagine how pathetic you'd have to be to question election results and say there was like fraud and outside help that hacked voting machines.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » December 3rd, 2020, 12:57 am

The Senate's unanimously agreed to a bill that would massively expand the H1-B program, mainly to massively increase the number of Indian immigrants and give them green cards faster. It's supposed to exclude Chinese nationals from the flood of tech industry workers who would be imported into America to fill American jobs that Americans want, but the courts would strike that bit down if it became law anyway. The House has a different version of the bill, so they need to reconcile it first, then send it up to the President, whomever that may be. Or they could stash it in the corona relief bill. If Biden is seated, it's passing, so if you guys know anyone who badly wants an entry level tech job (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH), better tell them to hurry up and get it.

It's a sick joke. How dare Americans want middle class jobs! They cost too much, with their salaries and rights and legal protections, much cheaper to pay off the scumfucks in DC to keep the cheap labor tap _open_.

Meanwhile, the only guy who's ever tried to do something to even slow this nonsense down has to go before the SCOTUS to explain why widespread chicanery is why he's still President. Which is a bit of a tough sell, because judges aren't principled people either, they know a bounty goes on their head if they start sidin' against Biden.

Sick, sad joke. What is _left_ when even our high-skilled work can be outsourced in exchange for campaign contributions? Wasn't that the promise of the globalist economy? Outsource the shit work to the slaves, get all the money, all the cushy jobs stay native, new industries appear that don't require hard toil?

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TTTX » December 3rd, 2020, 5:34 am

Companies want cheap labor (and that's just a fact), there is a reason why some jobs barely or don't have minimum wage, because after all why you pay minimum wage to an American, when you can get an illegal immigrant who is willing to work for much less?
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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » December 3rd, 2020, 6:32 am

Vol wrote:The Senate's unanimously agreed to a bill that would massively expand the H1-B program, mainly to massively increase the number of Indian immigrants and give them green cards faster. It's supposed to exclude Chinese nationals from the flood of tech industry workers who would be imported into America to fill American jobs that Americans want, but the courts would strike that bit down if it became law anyway. The House has a different version of the bill, so they need to reconcile it first, then send it up to the President, whomever that may be. Or they could stash it in the corona relief bill. If Biden is seated, it's passing, so if you guys know anyone who badly wants an entry level tech job (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH), better tell them to hurry up and get it.

It's a sick joke. How dare Americans want middle class jobs! They cost too much, with their salaries and rights and legal protections, much cheaper to pay off the scumfucks in DC to keep the cheap labor tap _open_.

Meanwhile, the only guy who's ever tried to do something to even slow this nonsense down has to go before the SCOTUS to explain why widespread chicanery is why he's still President. Which is a bit of a tough sell, because judges aren't principled people either, they know a bounty goes on their head if they start sidin' against Biden.

Sick, sad joke. What is _left_ when even our high-skilled work can be outsourced in exchange for campaign contributions? Wasn't that the promise of the globalist economy? Outsource the shit work to the slaves, get all the money, all the cushy jobs stay native, new industries appear that don't require hard toil?


Uh, pretty confident Trump is absolutely not for "slowing this nonsense down". This has just been voted by a Senate which, as far as I know, supported him for four years, is on his side, and is likely to stay this way for the next four years.

Trump absolutely did not get into an economic war with China because he wanted to "protect American workers". That's the PR bullshit. He went into an economic war with China because now, China is easily the US' main rival on the international scene. Since so much of the production has been outsourced, then using it as an excuse to try to hinder China was an easy point to use, but the whole point of his policies was to try and keep the US as the top political power in the world.

Dude owns I don't know how many hotels, do you really think he 100% does not want migrant workers in the country? Good luck finding enough Americans to clean dirty sheets and wake up at 4AM to cook food and wax floors before wealthy people wake up and notice them.

The fact that this decision is targeted towards India makes it obvious that it's about international politics. India is China's biggest rival in Asia, they have similar demographics, also produce a lot of goods, and are more palatable to Western powers due to not being nearly as authoritarian a regime. That's diplomatic savviness right there.

My father works for Safran, in the Snecma part (part of the big 4 of plane motorists along with Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce & GE). India is huge in tech, and their guys know their jobs very well, and it doesn't hurt that you can easily work with them because they speak understandable English. You won't only get entry-level tech guys with such an agreement, you will also get a ton of highly qualified engineers for the Silicon Valley. It's likely going to hurt guys with diplomas more than unqualified ones.

Also, for funsies, Chinese media has recently tried to push the narrative that Covid initially appeared in India, not China. It's absolutely bogus, but it shows who they see as their biggest enemy. There's also the military conflict in the Himalayas (which actually gave my dad some work - India's buying Rafales).

So that looks like a realpolitik bill, the kind that Trump has forgotten to pass for 4 years and that has kinda hurt US international influence.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » December 3rd, 2020, 7:05 am

Trump's a job killer, through and through.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » December 3rd, 2020, 4:04 pm

https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334573392180211716

Now we have video evidence of chicanery. Clear the room of GOP personnel, pull new ballots out from under a desk, start counting through the night. Are they real ballots? Are they being counted correctly? Where are they from? Nobody knows!

Probably won't matter tho. Nobody with government power wants to fall on their sword over something so silly like elections being real. Though the PA SC shot down the appeal there, so now it can go to the SCOTUS. Not sure how they're going to handle this, given there's all these cases in multiple states, they might want to bundle them together for the sake of expediency, or the claims and laws involved are too disparate and have to go one at a time.

Electoral college meets in 2 weeks, I believe, then Congress certifies their vote in early January.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » December 4th, 2020, 5:31 am

Vol wrote:https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334573392180211716

Now we have video evidence of chicanery. Clear the room of GOP personnel, pull new ballots out from under a desk, start counting through the night. Are they real ballots? Are they being counted correctly? Where are they from? Nobody knows!

Probably won't matter tho. Nobody with government power wants to fall on their sword over something so silly like elections being real. Though the PA SC shot down the appeal there, so now it can go to the SCOTUS. Not sure how they're going to handle this, given there's all these cases in multiple states, they might want to bundle them together for the sake of expediency, or the claims and laws involved are too disparate and have to go one at a time.

Electoral college meets in 2 weeks, I believe, then Congress certifies their vote in early January.


Georgia law does not require poll watchers to be in the room, and those were official ballot containers.

Funny how it's the right wing people making a big stink over something that is innocuous. I didn't see all this fervor when the California GOP put out fake ballot boxes.

Or gerrymandering the piss out of districts to disenfranchise democrat voters. Or allowing Bitch McConnell to even come close to winning his election.

No no, when the right wingers commit voter fraud, it's A-OK. If the Left-wing even looks at a ballot, it's ZOMG VOTER FRAUUUUUD!
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » December 4th, 2020, 6:14 am

Vol wrote:https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334573392180211716

Now we have video evidence of chicanery. Clear the room of GOP personnel, pull new ballots out from under a desk, start counting through the night. Are they real ballots? Are they being counted correctly? Where are they from? Nobody knows!

Probably won't matter tho. Nobody with government power wants to fall on their sword over something so silly like elections being real. Though the PA SC shot down the appeal there, so now it can go to the SCOTUS. Not sure how they're going to handle this, given there's all these cases in multiple states, they might want to bundle them together for the sake of expediency, or the claims and laws involved are too disparate and have to go one at a time.

Electoral college meets in 2 weeks, I believe, then Congress certifies their vote in early January.

Yes, because if I am going to plan to sneak ballots in I will absolutely do it with cameras watching me the entire time I do it....
Like, seriously, isn't the fact you have camera footage showing them doing the work enough to call it being observed?
You have the records of all the workers, you have their actions in the footage, you have the building, the ballots themselves AND the records to the ballots so that you know that if the ballots are fake or not.
So...how is this unobserved? Like, seriously, how are the checks an balances not working, irregardless of people in the room or not? because you can go back to this district and double check. And even if Gerogia is for Trump it still wouldn't matter anyway because Biden has still won.

Mobius_118 wrote:Georgia law does not require poll watchers to be in the room, and those were official ballot containers.

Funny how it's the right wing people making a big stink over something that is innocuous. I didn't see all this fervor when the California GOP put out fake ballot boxes.

Or gerrymandering the piss out of districts to disenfranchise democrat voters. Or allowing Bitch McConnell to even come close to winning his election.

No no, when the right wingers commit voter fraud, it's A-OK. If the Left-wing even looks at a ballot, it's ZOMG VOTER FRAUUUUUD!

Gerrymandering is straight fucked.
I am honestly surprised you lot have let it go on for so long. I mean, seriously it's just shit.
Image
I mean look at this snaking bullshit.

You guys really need an independent board to set the districts that can not be bought.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » December 4th, 2020, 10:10 am

Vol wrote:https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334573392180211716

Now we have video evidence of chicanery. Clear the room of GOP personnel, pull new ballots out from under a desk, start counting through the night. Are they real ballots? Are they being counted correctly? Where are they from? Nobody knows!


Yeah, yeah, they're the real ballots.

They stored it under a desk because the room is not infinite, there is a pandemic going on, so you'd want as much room to move as possible. Which means that the ballots you haven't counted yet should be put wherever people don't risk tripping over, or where it won't force people into tighter spaces.

I feel like some people are grasping at things significantly thinner than straws at the moment.

And to think that all of it could be avoided if Trump was able to admit to defeat. Which he'll never do of course, he'll push the narrative of the rigged election until his death. Anything to avoid being a "loser" I guess.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » December 4th, 2020, 8:28 pm

What's hilarious is that he's done this before with every one of his failed businesses.

He hooks people in, then rides the contributions as the business tanks and then it's on to the next big con. And with all the donations from his supporters, he's gonna be able to live pretty well in a nonextradition treaty country.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » December 24th, 2020, 11:05 am

Well apparently Boris managed to squeak a deal in the last seconds, now to see if it's not so shit that Parliament collapses.
I mean, if No Deal was gonna happen Parliament was gonna fall apart anyway, but now they might have just enough ammo to hold it over Boris's head for a good long while if it all goes tits up.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » December 26th, 2020, 11:17 pm

What're the terms though? Though it's impressive, giving our own government's laziness and ineptitude, that Parliament is running this to the very last moment given the immense scope. Something for the USA to aspire to, one day.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » December 27th, 2020, 2:54 am

Vol wrote:What're the terms though? Though it's impressive, giving our own government's laziness and ineptitude, that Parliament is running this to the very last moment given the immense scope. Something for the USA to aspire to, one day.

Well we don't know yet.
But we do know that anything we do get is worse than what we had, especially in the short term.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Vol » December 28th, 2020, 1:24 am

Lovely.

Meanwhile, Trump's signed that piece of pork-bloated stimulus bill, with the $600 cheques. So a fifth to the American people, 4/5s to a laundry list of relevant to irrelevant programs that would never pass muster in a stand alone bill. Though he's supposedly called up on some presidential power to withhold some money from something that would make the cheques bigger, possibly, I have less faith in our government now than ever.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 3rd, 2021, 8:37 am

https://usa.greekreporter.com/2020/12/30/odyssey-banned-for-violence-sexism-is-this-the-end-of-world-classics/?fbclid=IwAR07bguro-fYZ2Alk5oDwo4ZwU7YmAsVzXWwu16KG8XYEzPF_QkAZP389lk

And after Mark Twain, it's time to cancel Homer. Now the Odissey is "problematic" and needs to be eradicated from school programs.

You know, I've stopped getting angry at people bitching about comics and anime, because the woke gatekeepers in those groups are literally bankrupting themselves into oblivion anyway. But going after our myths and literature? Yeah, that still fucking gets me.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TTTX » January 3rd, 2021, 8:45 am

Alienmorph wrote:https://usa.greekreporter.com/2020/12/30/odyssey-banned-for-violence-sexism-is-this-the-end-of-world-classics/?fbclid=IwAR07bguro-fYZ2Alk5oDwo4ZwU7YmAsVzXWwu16KG8XYEzPF_QkAZP389lk

And after Mark Twain, it's time to cancel Homer. Now the Odissey is "problematic" and needs to be eradicated from school programs.

You know, I've stopped getting angry at people bitching about comics and anime, because the woke gatekeepers in those groups are literally bankrupting themselves into oblivion anyway. But going after our myths and literature? Yeah, that still fucking gets me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imMGchI1EWY&ab

I just leave this here.
the post is over, stop reading and move on.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 3rd, 2021, 5:03 pm

Apparently, some think you can just ask the Secretary of State for votes in order to win States. Simpler than getting more votes in the first place.

I don't know how many Unis study state or federal law, but I am certain that this mandate is going to be studied extensively in the next decades regarding the powers of the US President. I wouldn't be surprised if it is used in the future as the basis for some deep changes in what s/he can or cannot do because right now it looks like 45 is acting like a stress test for US institutions.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » January 4th, 2021, 2:58 am

I mean...not really.

There is no reasonable person who believes Trump still has a shot at winning. He lost. Even the conservative outlets are calling him an embarrassment.

The only people still on his side are the people who think they can use whats left of his popularity to maintain relevance. Ted Cruz isn't stupid enough to think his gambit will work to get Trump elected. But he sure as hell knows that it will lock in Trump voters for any re-election bid he ever tries.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 4th, 2021, 9:01 am

I know that it looks hopeless, but it raises the question as to what would happen if this Secretary of State was dishonest and answered favorably to Trump's demands. It raises the question as to how many corrupt officials you need to claim a state you haven't won.

It also got to be put in perspective with the latest batch of pardons. Even if such a scheme leads to investigations and indictments - what if the President can just pardon those that helped put him in charge? Some might frown upon the risks of a federal investigation, but if a president promises to pardon whoever helps him win the election whether he has the votes or not, it might give an extra motivation.

I don't think it's interesting because it might keep Trump in the Oval Office, it's interesting because it can give ideas to some unsavory individuals as to how to do the same in the future.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » January 4th, 2021, 9:21 am

I hate this bullshit assumption Europeans have that America is only moments away from turning into a tinpot dictatorship.

Here's one for you Sine. What if Macaroon or whatever the fuck his name was decided to institute military law? And what if, WHAT IF, there were enough people in the military that obeyed him? And what if he decided he wanted to cast out all the Muslims? What if? I mean its not likely but how many people would it take? Huh? WHAT IF SINE?

As it turns out, if IFs and BUTs were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry fucking Christmas

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 4th, 2021, 9:32 am

There are a ton of steps between a democracy and a dictatorship, you're not either fully one or the other.

And the US system is far from being perfect. There are many democracies around the world in which a head of state does not have the power to pardon people who were condemned for lying on its behalf, for a start. So it's interesting to see how it will react to some blatant attacks on its inner workings - if they brush it off because of how unhinged Trump is, it might very well come back to bite them in the ass when a smarter crook gets the job.

And Europeans have a vested interest in that because for all its flaws the US model is still much better than China's.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 4th, 2021, 9:50 am

As someone who's got not one, but two extreme-right parties in his country banging at the government's door nonstop, even during the pandemic (if anything they made even more noise than usual to try exploit the situation), I wouldn't say America is on the verge of dictarship or any other idiotic hyperbole like that.

But hold on to your butts, because unless Trump chickens out at the last moment (which I REALLY doubt he will) and vacates office without making a mess, I'd prepare for a 2021 full of chaos and rioting... oh sorry, I mean "peaceful protesting".

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » January 4th, 2021, 2:00 pm

Sinekein wrote:There are a ton of steps between a democracy and a dictatorship, you're not either fully one or the other.

And the US system is far from being perfect. There are many democracies around the world in which a head of state does not have the power to pardon people who were condemned for lying on its behalf, for a start. So it's interesting to see how it will react to some blatant attacks on its inner workings - if they brush it off because of how unhinged Trump is, it might very well come back to bite them in the ass when a smarter crook gets the job.

And Europeans have a vested interest in that because for all its flaws the US model is still much better than China's.

I know that here in the UK a Royal Pardon doesn't necessarily overturn a conviction.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » January 4th, 2021, 6:16 pm

Alienmorph wrote:
But hold on to your butts, because unless Trump chickens out at the last moment (which I REALLY doubt he will) and vacates office without making a mess, I'd prepare for a 2021 full of chaos and rioting... oh sorry, I mean "peaceful protesting".

You want to bet? Lord knows I'll take more easy money.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 4th, 2021, 6:51 pm

Nah, because I'd actually prefer to be completely wrong on this. I take no pleasure in other people's suffering, and I'm not wishing chaos and riots to happen. I just... see it as a possibility.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 4th, 2021, 7:16 pm

I wouldn't bet that there won't be any protesting of the election results when Trump is kicked out of the White House. It's basically a given at that point. The same people that came to chant "Stop the Count" (or "Count the Votes" in Arizona) are unlikely to just shrug and say "yeah, that was a fair election I'm fine with it".

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mobius_118 » January 5th, 2021, 9:49 am

Look, I'm trying to decide if I should buy an AR-15 or pick one up off the streets with how much faith I have in trump supporters right now.

They're already suicide bombing themselves and murdering protesters. It's only a matter of time before shit hits the fan here.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" Corrax Entry 7:17

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 5th, 2021, 3:25 pm

"We won every State. We won every State House in the country" - Donald Trump, 2021.

That call is the gift that keeps on giving.

I assume his lawyers are hard at work preparing a series of insanity pleas in the various cases that are dogging him. At this point, he might get considered insane and still run again in 2024 because his fans will follow him ("Genius IQ to plead insanity" "Deep State tried to get him" yadda yadda).

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby TheodoricFriede » January 5th, 2021, 11:42 pm

Guess we will see what a 50/50 senate split really buys you in 2021.

I'm going to miss rights.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » January 6th, 2021, 5:55 am

So apparently there was an altercation with cops and some right wingers today.
One that left a bunch of them burning and stepping on their "blue lives matter" flags.

I have no idea what's going on but if that's true then, well, how the tables have turned.

EDIT: Oh, no, apparently that was back on the 2nd and I am late to the party.
Well fuck me I am seeing tweets of to separate fucking events and they looks so damn similar. The flag stuff happened on the 2nd, but there was an altercation with right wingers and cops apparently last night/today.

Shit's weird.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 6th, 2021, 1:47 pm

You got to admire the political genius of Trump. He managed to single-handedly lose a Senate majority that looked as secured as it gets by making the Democrats look like the good guys with the Covid relief bill. Both Georgia elections look like they will be decided by the kind or margin where little details matter, and he made sure all of them were stockpiled against his side.

I guess he really got tired of winning too much.

Edit: LOL, Trump supporters are fighting the police to get inside Capitol Hill. Damn Alien, you lost a golden opportunity to make money there.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 6th, 2021, 2:11 pm

Sinekein wrote:LOL, Trump supporters are fighting the police to get inside Capitol Hill. Damn Alien, you lost a golden opportunity to make money there.


Yey, my misantrophy proves me right once again. Fuuuuck...

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 6th, 2021, 2:27 pm

Image

Edit: Oh, there's also militia members gathering outside of Georgia's congress. For what reason I couldn't possibly imagine.

Edit 2: Image

Is that a winner's flag I see on the left?

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 6th, 2021, 2:52 pm

TheodoricFriede wrote:I hate this bullshit assumption Europeans have that America is only moments away from turning into a tinpot dictatorship.

Here's one for you Sine. What if Macaroon or whatever the fuck his name was decided to institute military law? And what if, WHAT IF, there were enough people in the military that obeyed him? And what if he decided he wanted to cast out all the Muslims? What if? I mean its not likely but how many people would it take? Huh? WHAT IF SINE?

As it turns out, if IFs and BUTs were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry fucking Christmas


Ooooh I missed the rest of that gem. Feels like perfect time to answer it, doesn't it ?

Well first, I realize some Americans are still self-centered enough to not even bother learning the name of any world leader aside from their own. No surprise here.

Second, he can't. As in, he does not have the power to do that. He has no direct executive power, everything he says or does has to go through the National Assembly. The minute he does that, he is placed under arrest for treason, the Senate president becomes our new President, and that's it. I mean, Italy has had leaders way, way further right than us, and they still didn't manage to enact uber-xenophobic policies like this one, probably because our democracies are somewhat functional at their core.

If there were enough people in the military that obeyed him, that would still leave a ton of people in the police or the general population to protest against it. You would need a majority of soldiers who are A-OK with shooting civilians, which is a bit different from just doing a coup - because you do that and the whole country is in the streets, that's kind of our schtick.

Also, and bear with me with this, we tend to elect presidents with double-digit IQs. I hear it helps avoid shit like that.

So what if your suggestion was beyond ludicrous, and what if you took a hard look at your country in which GOP fans are storming Congress because they don't like the result of an election? Even in France, which is basically world champion in public demonstrations, neither the Elysee Palace nor the Senate or the National Assembly have ever come close to being overtaken by rioters since...I'd say 1870? At which time France was an Empire, since from the general knowledge of the world you have displayed so far I'm not sure you know that.

This is your country right now:

Image

So I feel like I am allowed to be a bit worried about where US democracy is going.
Last edited by Sinekein on January 6th, 2021, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » January 6th, 2021, 2:58 pm

A Reuters reporter is claiming shots being fired inside the chamber of representatives according to BBC live news.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 6th, 2021, 3:01 pm

Yeah now it's getting from "lol, toldya so!" to "This is giving me some serious history books bad flashbacks"...

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby FrozenShadow » January 6th, 2021, 3:07 pm

Hah, I knew the 2020 election and everything relating to that wasn't over yet. We are right know having a true crescendo, a negative encore going on Washington.

Trump incited protestors have marched, got in the Congress building and low key taken it over or at least had created a situation were the congress had had to stop their setting......you know the one they were about to make Biden officially next President.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Sinekein » January 6th, 2021, 3:10 pm

I feel like to a degree one of the reasons the situation is not totally out of control is because of how strict gun control laws are in the District of Columbia. You can bet all these sacks of shit would be carrying if they were allowed.

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Mazder » January 6th, 2021, 3:25 pm

China and Russia are probably laughing right now

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby Alienmorph » January 6th, 2021, 3:32 pm

Mazder wrote:China and Russia are probably laughing right now


And Iran, and North Korea, and Turkey...

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Re: Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

Postby FrozenShadow » January 6th, 2021, 3:34 pm

Alienmorph wrote:
Mazder wrote:China and Russia are probably laughing right now


And Iran, and North Korea, and Turkey...


Better make that a whole world (except US) that's laughing.

Edit: Now, it will be interesting to see, how our American members are going to comment this whole mess.
Last edited by FrozenShadow on January 6th, 2021, 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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