Bioware General (Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Other)

[Mazder]

I wish Dragon Age Origins would stop FUCKING CRASHING EVERY FEW EVENTS!!!
Even with the bugfix on Nexus it's still fucking dying ALL THE TIME!

[Dragaros]

PC Gamer: Where should Mass Effect go next?

[[ Robin Valentine: Maybe it's pessimistic of me, but I don't see a way for the series to bounce back at this point. Whiffing the grand finale of your trilogy is one thing, but to then attempt a dramatic fresh start to clean the slate and whiff that too? That's just too much of a cloud hanging over the next instalment, not to mention all the narrative paths Bioware has closed off for itself. Even if they can square that circle, and shake off all that bad feeling, I just don't think Bioware as it currently exists—having lost huge amounts of the original talent who made the games work, and seemingly laboring under ineffective management and oppressive oversight from EA—has given any of us any reason to keep the faith. It's not the studio that made Mass Effect 2 anymore, it's the studio that made Andromeda and Anthem. It's been six years since the studio last made a good game (Inquisition), and even that was a very mixed success. It feels like a shadow of its former self. I'd love a great new Mass Effect game, but right now I don't see a path to one—at least, not until modern Bioware can show us it still has some magic left.

Fraser Brown: Into the bin.

Wes Fenlon: Somewhere completely new. I know there are people who got really attached to Mass Effect—I still see N7 hoodies from time to time—but I always thought its lore was really boring. Remember how exciting the original Mass Effect seemed before launch, this new high fidelity sci-fi RPG, and then as soon as you get into the game, the story revolves around yet another advanced ancient alien civilization? It's the most hackneyed sci-fi trope of them all! It was the characters, and occasionally the settings, that really made Mass Effect work. How much benefit is there to tying another game to krogans and asari? Just jettison all of it and make a new RPG with a completely new setting. Call it Mass Effect if you want. It's a great name. But leave the baggage behind. And for the love of god, don't make the basis for all science in the galaxy some mysterious ancient civilization! Just let people invent cool shit.

Chris Livingston: A story on a smaller scale would be nice. I don't need to be saving the entire galaxy from extinction by ancient evil robots or whatever, I'd be happy just having personal drama and quests alongside the Mass Effect backdrop. Our journey could tie into major events but maybe just around the edges, kinda like how Foyle's War was about a detective solving murders during World War 2. Yes, the horrifying, world-shaping events are all there and you never forget them, but he's mostly just doing his own grim job amid the global nightmare. You can still create powerful stories without the main character being the most powerful person in the universe.

James Davenport: Make it a scary, intimate survival story. Andromeda's announcement was exciting to me because I thought we were going to get some truly 'other' sci-fi. Creatures beyond comprehension, inhabitable and unpredictable environments, and a crew of interesting characters moving through it all. Pin the stakes to the mission, but keep the scale small. Mass Effect—hell, all Bioware games—are beloved for the characters above all else. Make the whole game Mass Effect 2's finale, a venture into the mountains of madness, a Lewis and Clark journey that confronts the colonialism. Just put the characters first, and make them very, very stressed and unhappy.

Tyler Wilde: Echoing the others, I think we just like dramas set aboard cool spaceships, and if the characters have amusing mannerisms like poor dancing skills and interesting values, beliefs, and prejudices, which are tested over the course of away missions and then reflected upon on the ship, then I think we're going to enjoy it, at least if those missions are any fun. Realizing that what I'm saying boils down to 'make the characters good and the game fun,' I'd more specifically be up for totally non-Mass Effect-ey combat and mission design. A lean toward horror could be interesting. I'd even be fine with it ditching the RPG pretense altogether and just going full Gears of War. I honestly never found skill points to be the interesting part of Mass Effect.

Andy Chalk: I want a Mass Effect sequel that explores what happens when the reapers win (as they should have, by any reasonable measure) and the asari, turians, salarians, and everyone else who's evolved beyond throwing rocks at their neighbors is cindered. It's a pretty simple setup: The reapers, having done what they do, withdraw to dark space to wait out the next cycle, and left behind are a few remote outposts, a handful of ships on the galactic periphery, maybe some scattered survivors beneath the rubble of advanced worlds, and the Citadel. What happens next? Do they die off in isolated pockets, or do they maybe figure out something else? That's something I'd like to play. The trouble is that it would require a big swing of the retcon bat to pull off, including a complete invalidation of the ending of Mass Effect 3. I don't think that's a big deal—just say Shepard had half his skull blown off by a massive reaper shell the moment he stepped out of cover to start the final assault, and what we witnessed from that point on was an explosion of misfiring synapses, stretching his final milliseconds of life into a wishful victory fantasy (not all that terribly different from the Indoctrination Theory, really, just a lot faster and with less guesswork)—but I'm told that fans might not care for that sort of "it was all a dream" re-telling. (Which I really don't get, everyone hates the ending anyway!) Do that, and I'm in. Otherwise, eh, it was a great trilogy, it's done, and so am I.

Jody Macgregor: The heart of the Mass Effect trilogy was the Citadel, a city in space where you're always turning the corner to meet another new species. Give me a game that goes back to the era of the first Mass Effect, but let me play an actual alien this time, someone who lives on the Citadel and has to deal with all the conflict that goes on there. Maybe an agent of the shadow broker or a detective or some duct rat in over their head who has to deal with internal threats to the station while. And at the climax, in the background, Shepard is over there climbing Citadel Tower to stop a reaper. ]]

[Dragaros]

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OldLmhW32UA

[[ Join us as we interview a few of our own devs as they tell the story of N7.

Intro: Mac Walters - 00:05
Interviewer: Jay Ingram (Intro and Outro)
Panel:
N7 - Art - Derek Watts - 01:41
N7 - Lore - Preston Watamaniuk - 13:24
N7 - Community - Chris Bain - 20:56
N7 - Journey - Melanie Faulknor - 31:48
Outro: 35:16 ]]

[Alienmorph]

That is cute as f. and in hindsight I'm surprised it took all these years to get one aha.

[Sinekein]

Robin Valentine: Maybe it's pessimistic of me, but I don't see a way for the series to bounce back at this point. Whiffing the grand finale of your trilogy is one thing, but to then attempt a dramatic fresh start to clean the slate and whiff that too? That's just too much of a cloud hanging over the next instalment, not to mention all the narrative paths Bioware has closed off for itself. Even if they can square that circle, and shake off all that bad feeling, I just don't think Bioware as it currently exists—having lost huge amounts of the original talent who made the games work, and seemingly laboring under ineffective management and oppressive oversight from EA—has given any of us any reason to keep the faith. It's not the studio that made Mass Effect 2 anymore, it's the studio that made Andromeda and Anthem. It's been six years since the studio last made a good game (Inquisition), and even that was a very mixed success. It feels like a shadow of its former self. I'd love a great new Mass Effect game, but right now I don't see a path to one—at least, not until modern Bioware can show us it still has some magic left.

Raises a fair few points.

Fraser Brown: Into the bin.

Twitter user spotted.

Wes Fenlon: Somewhere completely new. I know there are people who got really attached to Mass Effect—I still see N7 hoodies from time to time—but I always thought its lore was really boring. Remember how exciting the original Mass Effect seemed before launch, this new high fidelity sci-fi RPG, and then as soon as you get into the game, the story revolves around yet another advanced ancient alien civilization? It's the most hackneyed sci-fi trope of them all! It was the characters, and occasionally the settings, that really made Mass Effect work. How much benefit is there to tying another game to krogans and asari? Just jettison all of it and make a new RPG with a completely new setting. Call it Mass Effect if you want. It's a great name. But leave the baggage behind. And for the love of god, don't make the basis for all science in the galaxy some mysterious ancient civilization! Just let people invent cool shit.

Yeah right, boring lore. This is because of people like that that we got the ME3 ending.

Chris Livingston: A story on a smaller scale would be nice. I don't need to be saving the entire galaxy from extinction by ancient evil robots or whatever, I'd be happy just having personal drama and quests alongside the Mass Effect backdrop. Our journey could tie into major events but maybe just around the edges, kinda like how Foyle's War was about a detective solving murders during World War 2. Yes, the horrifying, world-shaping events are all there and you never forget them, but he's mostly just doing his own grim job amid the global nightmare. You can still create powerful stories without the main character being the most powerful person in the universe.

I agree completely.

James Davenport: Make it a scary, intimate survival story. Andromeda's announcement was exciting to me because I thought we were going to get some truly 'other' sci-fi. Creatures beyond comprehension, inhabitable and unpredictable environments, and a crew of interesting characters moving through it all. Pin the stakes to the mission, but keep the scale small. Mass Effect—hell, all Bioware games—are beloved for the characters above all else. Make the whole game Mass Effect 2's finale, a venture into the mountains of madness, a Lewis and Clark journey that confronts the colonialism. Just put the characters first, and make them very, very stressed and unhappy.

The Last of Us Effect, I'll pass, but at least it's intriguing.

Tyler Wilde: Echoing the others, I think we just like dramas set aboard cool spaceships, and if the characters have amusing mannerisms like poor dancing skills and interesting values, beliefs, and prejudices, which are tested over the course of away missions and then reflected upon on the ship, then I think we're going to enjoy it, at least if those missions are any fun. Realizing that what I'm saying boils down to 'make the characters good and the game fun,' I'd more specifically be up for totally non-Mass Effect-ey combat and mission design. A lean toward horror could be interesting. I'd even be fine with it ditching the RPG pretense altogether and just going full Gears of War. I honestly never found skill points to be the interesting part of Mass Effect.

Kinda agree there, although you need an interesting baseline for your characters to be engaging. If you can't write a plot to save your life it's unlikely players will be that ecstatic about your characters.

Andy Chalk: I want a Mass Effect sequel that explores what happens when the reapers win (as they should have, by any reasonable measure) and the asari, turians, salarians, and everyone else who's evolved beyond throwing rocks at their neighbors is cindered. It's a pretty simple setup: The reapers, having done what they do, withdraw to dark space to wait out the next cycle, and left behind are a few remote outposts, a handful of ships on the galactic periphery, maybe some scattered survivors beneath the rubble of advanced worlds, and the Citadel. What happens next? Do they die off in isolated pockets, or do they maybe figure out something else? That's something I'd like to play. The trouble is that it would require a big swing of the retcon bat to pull off, including a complete invalidation of the ending of Mass Effect 3. I don't think that's a big deal—just say Shepard had half his skull blown off by a massive reaper shell the moment he stepped out of cover to start the final assault, and what we witnessed from that point on was an explosion of misfiring synapses, stretching his final milliseconds of life into a wishful victory fantasy (not all that terribly different from the Indoctrination Theory, really, just a lot faster and with less guesswork)—but I'm told that fans might not care for that sort of "it was all a dream" re-telling. (Which I really don't get, everyone hates the ending anyway!) Do that, and I'm in. Otherwise, eh, it was a great trilogy, it's done, and so am I.

Is PC Gamer an edgelord sanctuary or am I that far off from the average player in liking the space opera setting Mass Effect offers?

Jody Macgregor: The heart of the Mass Effect trilogy was the Citadel, a city in space where you're always turning the corner to meet another new species. Give me a game that goes back to the era of the first Mass Effect, but let me play an actual alien this time, someone who lives on the Citadel and has to deal with all the conflict that goes on there. Maybe an agent of the shadow broker or a detective or some duct rat in over their head who has to deal with internal threats to the station while. And at the climax, in the background, Shepard is over there climbing Citadel Tower to stop a reaper. ]]

To paraphrase FemShep: "Women have good ideas [Wrex]. You should listen."

[Alienmorph]

Is PC Gamer an edgelord sanctuary or am I that far off from the average player in liking the space opera setting Mass Effect offers?

Nah, it's just that the gaming critics and journalists crowd has collectively decided everything needs to be more "serious" and "mature-themed" to justify their blatant bias towards stuff like Last of Us 2 (see the truckload of awards they just made sure that game got).

The space opera aspect was always my favorite part of Mass Effect too, you're definately not alone on that one. It's very obviously derivative, yes, but it was also well executed, and we still haven't got many other games that really let you feel like you're playing a sci-fi series or movie saga how you want it. That's the one thing I did appreciate even of ME:A: that they were at least trying to bring that aspect of the game back, the exploration, the character focus, the feeling of hope and wonder a lot of classic sci-fi has.

The last thing I believe we need is some depressingly "realistic" game, like a Mass Effect set after the reapers killed almost everyone, with some b.s. guilt-trip plotline that journalists can claim is a metaphore of society 'till the cows come home. That would probably be so poorly received it'd kill for good not just Mass Effect, but BW as a whole.

[TTTX]

Is PC Gamer an edgelord sanctuary or am I that far off from the average player in liking the space opera setting Mass Effect offers?

Nah just usual pick stuff that piss people off so they will read our crappy articles.

To paraphrase FemShep: "Women have good ideas [Wrex]. You should listen."

true, but the prequel idea isn't one the those good ideas, for the obvious reason of the ME3 ending will automatically raise the question of "why should I care about a story and characters that will mean nothing (with characters might being killed or their lives ruined anyway) by the time ME3 takes place anyway?".

not the mention in general prequels suck and it doesn't matter the medium that's pretty much a fact.

[Sinekein]

Well, MGS3 begs to disagree. Or all the TOR content for Star Wars. Even Rogue One is by far the best recent SW movie.

If it's small scale, you can make a good story before ME1. The endings are bad as far as BW endings go because you spend so much time caring for characters and everything is thrown out of the window for metaphysical issues in the last 30 minutes, but they don't mean the end of the galaxy either (Control in particular).

They just plain suck when you look at it from a Shepard's journey point of view, and especially when you look at how it's built throughout ME3. And they reek of Cerberus fanboyism with the best solution for the universe - Control again - being the one TIM keeps pushing against everyone's opinion.

As long as they steer away from Reapers and Geth, a pre-ME1 game could be very good.

[Alienmorph]

The events of ME3 will always loom on the series like the proverbial elephant in the room. Not even escaping to another galaxy rid us of them completely. But there is a few decades of time inbetween the First Contanct War and the Battle of the Citadel you could place stuff in, where humans were present and the whole setting hasn't been set on fire by mecha-squids. That's room enough to get a whole other trilogy up and running, it'd just have to be its own separate thing, with little to no overlap with anything in SHepard's trilogy besides a few cameos and easter eggs, and not just go "and the the Reaper War happen and they all died anyway" at the end.

[TTTX]

Well, MGS3 begs to disagree. Or all the TOR content for Star Wars. Even Rogue One is by far the best recent SW movie.

If it's small scale, you can make a good story before ME1. The endings are bad as far as BW endings go because you spend so much time caring for characters and everything is thrown out of the window for metaphysical issues in the last 30 minutes, but they don't mean the end of the galaxy either (Control in particular).

They just plain suck when you look at it from a Shepard's journey point of view, and especially when you look at how it's built throughout ME3. And they reek of Cerberus fanboyism with the best solution for the universe - Control again - being the one TIM keeps pushing against everyone's opinion.

As long as they steer away from Reapers and Geth, a pre-ME1 game could be very good.

yeah I know (also MGS3 only really works, because it's wasn't about Solid Snake, but about Big Boss a character that didn't have much character outside of being the bad guy twice and basically being a badass legend in the MGS universe and you only chose MGS and SW there are many more outside of those who have tried and failed doing prequels my point still stand), but that's a very narrow selection compared to how many other prequels that have been done, prequels are genrally bad, a lot of movies, comic books, games have tried them and 9 times out of 10 they suck, generally because of bad writing or having characters go through similar plot threads as they have before (SW: Solo is a good example of this).

it's BW most of their main stories are basically beat the big bad and save the world, the only one I can think of that did have that plot line is DA2 and that story is basically a prequel and 3 stories (and I'm being generous considering how short the 3rd act is) in one game loosely hold together by the overarching theme of Templar and Mages killing each other because freedom vs oppression/safety and I'm going to be honest that story was not good, pretty much because of the terrible development cycle.

not to mention, the management over at BW sucks at the moment, most of the talent have left and if they do a prequel they would never do it before ME1 because then they would have to return to old shooting system which didn't have ammo back then and if you want to make sure the player will know what happens to those character during/after ME3 they would have to choose a cannon ending and they won't, the egos of the 2 who made the endings will never let that happen.

[Sinekein]

The events of ME3 will always loom on the series like the proverbial elephant in the room. Not even escaping to another galaxy rid us of them completely. But there is a few decades of time inbetween the First Contanct War and the Battle of the Citadel you could place stuff in, where humans were present and the whole setting hasn't been set on fire by mecha-squids. That's room enough to get a whole other trilogy up and running, it'd just have to be its own separate thing, with little to no overlap with anything in SHepard's trilogy besides a few cameos and easter eggs, and not just go "and the the Reaper War happen and they all died anyway" at the end.

Honestly, I hope they aim for a standalone good game instead of planning for a trilogy. The "trilogy" aspect is one of the worst part of the OT for a variety of reasons, chief among them the fact that ME2 is basically inconsequential - you can almost skip from 1 to 3 honestly, especially if you add Arrival at the end of ME1.

Plus, if you play before 1, then aside from Shep (or whoever you like to kill in your playthroughs) even if you encounter a character its fate will not be sealed: there will be no friendly geth for obvious reasons, and there will be no EDI, so even if you favor Destroy, you won't meet the eventual casualties.

Also, there are a ton of side characters you could place here and there as a link towards the OT - and when I mean side, I don't mean Liara, I mean Nihlus, Vasir, Vido Santiago, Reegar...characters who could easily have lived through adventures before ME1 kicks in.

If it's small scale, you could even have OT characters that act as gatekeep bosses you cannot defeat, like Wrex or Samara. Instead of being a demi-god, this time you'd play as someone way more average on the power scale, who would most definitely get the fuck off if s/he encountered a krogan battlemaster or an asari justicar.

[TTTX]

If it's small scale, you could even have OT characters that act as gatekeep bosses you cannot defeat, like Wrex or Samara. Instead of being a demi-god, this time you'd play as someone way more average on the power scale, who would most definitely get the fuck off if s/he encountered a krogan battlemaster or an asari justicar.

problem is that BW have never done that, well they tried with Hawke in DA2 being a nobody "average" refugee citizen rising to power, but well ends up killing spirits and other powerful beings, BW don't do average, they basically do power fantasies.

It's nice idea, but pulling it off well it's not in BW tool set.

[Sinekein]

I'm nearing the end of ME3, only Horizon, Omega & Citadel left.

There were a couple of glitches of the "stuck in the scenery" kind, nothing big. Also a conversation never ending once.

Leviathan was better than I remembered, it really has a unique horrific mood all along that is quite unique in the trilogy and works really well. All fights felt unique. I don't expect the same from Omega, from what I remember it was mostly "just shoot stuff". And I've warmed up towards the Reapers' origin. Not the way it's solved (catalyst + crucible is still dumb), but the way it's brought up.

I just finished Thessia, with Cerberus' Diabolus Ex Machina being by far the worst part of the game so far. Kai Leng is to this game what the Gargoyles are to Hunchback of Notre Dame. I mean, there are some fantastic opponents in the trilogy - Vasir is the best IMO, but Petrovsky, Saren and a myriad of ME2 mission bosses are also excellent, charismatic and actually challenging - and they pit us against a pathetically easy cosplayer with gunship support (the same kind of gunship Shepard destroyed several times in 2 - during Kasumi's loyalty mission, when recruiting Garrus, when recruiting Samara...) you kill in seconds yet end up "losing" against. That's so dumb. Even worse, on Insanity, he went down in seconds despite me having literally zero efficient ways to get through shields (I picked Liara & Javik).

That's like a fanfiction teenage author hijacking the serious stuff grown-ups are writing.

But the rest of the game is still great, if much easier than the previous two. Only problem is that since I started from scratch, I had no weapons, and haven't had the cash to buy the Wraith yet, which is by far my favorite shotgun. Trying out the Raider at the moment but it's not the same.

[Mazder]

Jody Macgregor: The heart of the Mass Effect trilogy was the Citadel, a city in space where you're always turning the corner to meet another new species. Give me a game that goes back to the era of the first Mass Effect, but let me play an actual alien this time, someone who lives on the Citadel and has to deal with all the conflict that goes on there. Maybe an agent of the shadow broker or a detective or some duct rat in over their head who has to deal with internal threats to the station while. And at the climax, in the background, Shepard is over there climbing Citadel Tower to stop a reaper. ]]

To paraphrase FemShep: "Women have good ideas [Wrex]. You should listen."

We've been saying it for YEARS.
Mass Effect origins!
Let us play as the aliens!
ME3 MP shows you can easily put the models in to a playable state.
Yes the game would be fucking HUGE with different paths if you got he DA:O way but I would welcome that!
Just make it more optimised then DA:O is...oi...

[Sinekein]

Well, Citadel is still as glorious as it was 7 years ago. And the Armax Arena is such a fantastic content to play.

The beginning of the missions even made me realize drones could be hacked. I never realized it worked before, mostly because it is hard to see what the Geth Prime drones are doing - but the CAT6 ones commit suicide so you clearly see who they attack.
It made the first part of Citadel much easier, because without that it would be a gigantic pain as an Infiltrator with Armor-Piercing Rounds as a bonus power. I assume it must be hell if you're playing as a soldier, with that crap pistol, almost no ammunition, and no powers you can rely on.
The rest of the DLC up until the final fight was a breeze, but Infiltrator!Clone is reeeeaaaally tough. Hits like a truck, hard to pin down since he's so often cloaked, and loves to spam Incinerate when you're out in the open.

Plus since I went back to the Valiant - to go alongside a shotgun - I could not get the funny glitch where you fight a headless Maya Brooks. Not enough raw damage - well, I could probably have triggered it with the help of Garrus to remove the shields but it took too much effort considering how difficult the fight was.

[magnuskn]

Citadel was such a great DLC and the way the trilogy should have been finished. I still tear up at "...the best". <sniff>

[SciFlyBoy]

Well, Citadel is still as glorious as it was 7 years ago. And the Armax Arena is such a fantastic content to play.

The beginning of the missions even made me realize drones could be hacked. I never realized it worked before, mostly because it is hard to see what the Geth Prime drones are doing - but the CAT6 ones commit suicide so you clearly see who they attack.
It made the first part of Citadel much easier, because without that it would be a gigantic pain as an Infiltrator with Armor-Piercing Rounds as a bonus power. I assume it must be hell if you're playing as a soldier, with that crap pistol, almost no ammunition, and no powers you can rely on.
The rest of the DLC up until the final fight was a breeze, but Infiltrator!Clone is reeeeaaaally tough. Hits like a truck, hard to pin down since he's so often cloaked, and loves to spam Incinerate when you're out in the open.

Plus since I went back to the Valiant - to go alongside a shotgun - I could not get the funny glitch where you fight a headless Maya Brooks. Not enough raw damage - well, I could probably have triggered it with the help of Garrus to remove the shields but it took too much effort considering how difficult the fight was.

Did you do the glitch in the Arena?

I remember using the hard hitters like Garrus and such and dying so fast, but when I used Kasumi and Tali for their drones and decoys and had Defense Drone as my bonus it gave me seven players on my team at any given time. After hours that was the only way I could beat that.

Currently finishing a ME3 Engineer/Garrus LI paragon playthrough.

[Sinekein]

Yeah did it. Not subtle - Wrex and James maxed for survival. But it was easy as an Infiltrator (probably the same as Engineer) due to the possibility to hack Primes and Atlases.

IIRC each wave is 2 big enemies with only one type of small ones - Praetorian & Abomination, Prime & Pyro - if you hack during this wave you can basically sit down and watch them kill each other, Pyros have absurd DPS - Atlas & Dragoon, Banshee & Husk. Abominations and Husks die quick and are vulnerable to about any biotic crowd control, Pyros can be hacked and Atlases are slow as fuck which gives ample time to down the Dragoon - you just have to look to be behind cover from Atlas fire.

Then the last wave is Praetorian & Prime - so you can hack primes, down the Praetorians, and then focus on Primes - and then Atlas & Banshee - same thing with hacking Atlases. Banshees are relatively easy when you're not being fired at - Warps can be dodged with a roll, and if you're in stairs they can't grab you, they need to be level to sync-kill. Praetorians also have nowhere near the level of HP from the multiplayer, and you can strongly weaken them by shooting their jaw.

Also the map is like Vancouver, a merry go round. You just have to lure the enemies and then shoot them as you retreat. Thankfully there are few long range enemies like Rocket Troopers or Rachni (and no Phantoms). Actually, I discovered that the hardest Cerberus setting has no Phantoms, which makes it easier than the level below which has no Atlases but Phantoms.

Only thing remaining is the Mirror Match, I haven't tried it, not sure if I will since there's no reward whatsoever.

[Sinekein]

Anyway, since I'm nearing the end and played Paragon through and through, I watched a video of what psychotic players can expect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxlGdU29RY

Renegarde went from cool badass dude in ME2 to stone-cold psycho in ME3, even though not all are on the same level.

Gunning down Mordin, Wrex and Falere were the three most horrible for me because they were so pointless (the Rannoch ones were painful but those are not framed the same way) - I'd even single out Falere's as Shepard's darkest possible action because it is utterly gratuitous compared to the genophage decisions which have a real political weight.

Someone in the comments put it nicely - ME3 is the reality check for those who enjoyed the fun renegade jerk of the first two games.

[magnuskn]

I found some of the Renegade moments in ME2 already really gratuitous. Pushing that merc out the window, sending the Biotic God to his untimely demise... not the action you'd associate with a sane mind.

[Mazder]

Y'know, if the Legendary edition changed one thing, it'd be to axe Jessica Chobot's Diana Allers and put Emily "I fucking rammed a Reaper with a sky van because I am THAT badass" Wong in instead.

[Vol]

Man, the Allers thing seems so quaint in retrospect, huh?

Huh. They also had that redheaded gamer girl in the DA2 DLC.

Suppose there was an effort, as gaming was becoming a mainstream concept, to do cameos at that time.

[TTTX]

Man, the Allers thing seems so quaint in retrospect, huh?

Huh. They also had that redheaded gamer girl in the DA2 DLC.

Suppose there was an effort, as gaming was becoming a mainstream concept, to do cameos at that time.

it wasn't good at the time and it has only age worse as time has gone on.

She even had a youtube series where she was one of the main stars taking place in DA universe and to be fair people really hated her because the writing of her character and she also voiced a character in Fallout New Vegas where people loved her so it's obvious the writing was the problem for the Tallis character.

Y'know, if the Legendary edition changed one thing, it'd be to axe Jessica Chobot's Diana Allers and put Emily "I fucking rammed a Reaper with a sky van because I am THAT badass" Wong in instead.

that would be for the best I think. probably won't happen though.

[Dragaros]

Casey Hudson and Mark Darrah leave BioWare, Mass Effect and Dragon Age projects remain underway

https://blog.bioware.com/2020/12/03/from-casey-hudson/

[[ I’m incredibly fortunate to have had a career where I’ve been able to work with brilliantly talented people, create entire worlds from our imaginations, and see them being enjoyed by millions of people around the world. And now, after nearly 20 years of work at BioWare, I’ve made the decision to retire from the studio and make way for the next generation of studio leaders.

It’s not an easy decision to make, and big changes like this always come with a certain degree of sadness. I will miss being able to work every day with our inspiring developers on the biggest and most exciting projects I can imagine. But I also know that this is a good time for a change, for both myself and BioWare.

When I became Studio GM a little over three years ago, our goal as a leadership team was to position our people and projects for long-term success. Now, as BioWare celebrates its 25th anniversary, the studio is poised for an exciting new era of amazing games. This year we’ve been inspired by the continued community support for our ongoing work on Star Wars: The Old Republic and Anthem. A few months ago we provided a deeper look at the work that’s going into the next huge Dragon Age game. And on N7 Day we announced Mass Effect: The Legendary Edition and gave a hint at what’s coming next in the Mass Effect universe. It’s an exciting time, both in terms of projects you’ve heard about, and some things not yet announced.

Arriving at this point has been an opportunity for me to reflect on my own future, and 2020 has been a year that forced all of us to re-imagine how we think about work and life. For me, it’s been the realization that I still have tremendous energy to create, but also that I need to try something different. I’m not sure exactly what that is yet, but I know that I want to start by rediscovering my creative passion through more personal work.

Mark Darrah, the Executive Producer for Dragon Age, is also announcing his retirement from the studio today. We have worked together since the early days of BioWare and I have valued his contribution immensely – especially in recent years as a key partner in leading the studio.

One of the things that makes these decisions easier is knowing that BioWare will move forward with a strong and complete set of studio leaders. We have a very talented leader in Gary McKay, our Sr. Director of Development Operations, who will be BioWare’s interim Studio GM. Christian Dailey has been a driving force for BioWare as Studio Director for BioWare Austin and will be taking over the role of Dragon Age’s Executive Producer. Gary and Christian will have the support of an experienced group of project and department leaders who are ready to guide BioWare into the future.

There are so many people I want to thank for sharing in this journey: Our players, who inspire us and make it all possible. Electronic Arts, which has given us a stable and supportive environment to keep making games even in the most unstable times. And the many amazing people that I’ve had the honor of working with and learning from over the years.

Perhaps most of all I want to thank BioWare’s founders, Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka, for hiring me back in 1998 as a junior technical artist. They took a chance on me and fundamentally altered the course of my life in the most amazing way. Because of their wisdom and foundational values, BioWare has always been a company built on humility, integrity, and the idea of finding great people and fully empowering them. We’ve been fortunate to have found success, and I know those enduring values will continue to guide BioWare’s success in the future.

It’s profound and humbling to look back on a decades-long career and think about the things we’ve achieved together. It’s hard to make the decision to move on, but I’m excited about what’s next, for all of us.

Thank you,
Casey Hudson ]]

https://blog.bioware.com/2020/12/03/from-mark-darrah/

[[ I have been at BioWare since the 90s. Back when CRPGs were considered a dead genre. Through the last 23 years, I have watched video games evolve and grow into a truly powerful communication medium. We are an important part of so many people’s lives. And BioWare has been a part of this journey. Though I remain confident in BioWare’s strength and continued place in this conversation, I have decided to retire from my position at BioWare.

This has been a very difficult decision for me. The team of amazing developers on Dragon Age, make my life fuller and better. They have taught me so much. But the strength of the team is also what makes this possible. I know that Dragon Age won’t just survive without me, it will thrive.

BioWare has always been about telling emotional stories through characters. We have wandered away from this central guiding pillar at times, but I am confident that the next Dragon Age will show that we remain committed to this kind of game. We will have a lot to show you.

This year has been transformative to the way we do everything. The way we work, the way we socialize; these are things that have changed. Some of these changes are temporary but others will remain forever. I believe that this gives us an opportunity to bring in new voices. To reimagine how we work. To strengthen how we tell stories.

Dragon Age will be in good hands. Christian Dailey will be moving into the Executive Producer role. Christian Dailey is a strong leader and will provide great insight into the rest of the Dragon Age leadership who remain. This is a team that includes people with decades of experience at BioWare. I am confident that, together, this is the team that can make this Dragon Age the best one yet.

Matthew Goldman remains the Creative Director. He has been on Dragon Age since the early days of Dragon Age: Origins. Like me, he has been involved in the franchise as it has changed over the years. He has a deep understanding of what it has been and what it has the potential to be.

Mass Effect too has an exciting future. I won’t say too much but I am impressed by the growth of Mike Gamble and I am looking forward to all that franchise will do under his leadership

Likely you are reading this entry after reading a similar one from Casey Hudson. If not, surprise! He is also announcing his retirement today. Casey has taught me a lot of things over the years, especially since his return three years ago. I look forward to seeing what he does next.

This has been a long and exciting journey. I am incredibly grateful to Ray and Greg for taking a chance on a new graduate back in the earliest days of BioWare. I have done my best to live up to the values that they set in those early days. Values I think still flow through the (now virtual) halls of BioWare.

More than anything I am thankful for the ability to have touched so many lives. To have given people a chance to explore themselves through our games. I like to think I have helped make some of your lives a little better. I hope I’m right.
I don’t know what’s next for me, but I’m excited to find out. Just as I’m excited to find out what Dragon Age now becomes.

Thank you,
Mark Darrah ]]

[Alienmorph]

Oooph. That's... not a good sign. Not a good sign at all.

I have my beef with Hudson, as I believe do pretty much everyone who is/was fan of ME, but I'd rather have had him at the helm than some of the new "talents" who have been seeping into the company. Might be bad news even for the Remaster, let alone any new ME game.

[TheodoricFriede]

Eh. The company is a sunken ship anyway.

No, not a sinking ship. A SUNKEN ship.

Anyone still left was trying to attach flotation devices to the hull of the Titanic. It's a fun idea, but a physical impossibility.

[Alienmorph]

Agreed. I remain dubious that thei're gonna last long enough to release any new game, not even DA4 or the revisted version of Anthem (assuming that is even still a thing). But I was at least vaguely hopeful on the remaster of the ME trilogy as a last hurrah. If they can't even manage to keep Hudson around for a few months to get that done...

[magnuskn]

Eh, not sure if his departure would affect that in any way. What they gonna do, include some extra SJW stuff only FemShep gets, while dunking on MaleShep? ^^

Honestly, this might make room for a better future for Mass Effect, since one of the main obstacles of just continueing in the Milky Way should be out of the way now. The other one, Hack Walters, hopefully will find a new job opportunity quickly as well.

But of course it could mean they go full SJW and, well, there's maxims for never going full retard.

[Alienmorph]

Eh, not sure if his departure would affect that in any way. What they gonna do, include some extra SJW stuff only FemShep gets, while dunking on MaleShep? ^^

Nah. But there's plenfty of "problematic" stuff they could take off the games.

Don't be surprised if things like the asari strippers aren't in the remaster, or if some of the "unrealistically pretty" characters get redesigned to some degree. I already worried about stuff like that happening anyway, but with the last remnants of OG Bioware leaving the building it becomes all the more likely.

[Sinekein]

Yeah right, SJW stuff is the biggest issue right there.

Way to focus on what matters in Bioware.

[magnuskn]

<shrug> Actually, that is a bigger part of it than you'd think. By making the games "safer" for people to play (i.e. neutered of anything controversial) or removing parts which are "problematic" (like the Asari strippers Alienmorph mentioned), the stories become more bland. There has been an on-going trend for companions in the last BioWare games to have very "safe" personalities, with little to make them distinctive. Since companions have been one of the strongest points BioWare had going for them, their lack of distinctiveness is something which drags down their entire games. I mean, I can maybe remember four non-returning characters from their last three games altogether, while characters like Tali, Garrus, Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Grunt, Mordin are stuck in my head forever.

There are technical problems with BioWare as well, i.e. trying too hard for open-world gameplay and filling it with fetch quest bullshit. But the main problem they have is that their stories are not as engaging anymore as they used to be. And that has to do with the new personal at BioWare, who are doing agenda stuff, not trying to tell the best story they can. See Kennedy, Kathleen for another example of that.

That's why CD Project Red is drinking BioWare's milkshake. They don't shy away from controversial themes at all.

[Sinekein]

That's why CD Project Red is drinking BioWare's milkshake. They don't shy away from controversial themes at all.

I think you are confusing "depth" and "controversy".

There's nothing controversial in The Witcher 3. Like...really nothing. Geralt is not a racist, he's not a bigot, he's not a zealot, he's not sexist. Some characters are, but they are not shown to be "right" when they behave like that. G can make a variety of moral choices but they don't change much who he is, which is pretty much a fucking crypto-feminist for a fantasy setting considering how well he treats women compared to the average grunt. I mean, TW3 alone gave us three of the greatest female characters in videogame history, and one of them is pretty much canonically bisexual. It's hard to take TW3 and say "IN YOUR FACE SJWS HAHAHA".

However, Geralt is involved in some very deep and meaningful stories, like Mordin was in the OT. He has to struggle with the grey areas of morality, in which there is no clearly defined "good" and "bad" people. Dealing with the Bloody Baron is TW3's genophage arc, it is well-written enough that it questions the player on what the "right" choice is in a situation that does not seem to have a single perfect outcome.

The problem with Bioware is not that they have taken too much SJW Kool-Aid and that the quality of their games has suffered from it. The problem is that they have forgotten how to write a proper, deep, engaging story arc. Like Virmire in ME1, or Jacob's loyalty mission in 2, or the genophage arc in 3. I mean, Jacob's LM is a great example: who will deny that Jacob Taylor is an awful character? And yet, his LM is a very good moment because it is well-written and it has actual depth, it's not just "shoot stuff and win".

If you don't know how to write, you can't properly tackle themes. So either you stay superficial or you end up with some poorly-written edgy crap. Bioware has mostly been guilty of the former in Andromeda, which has all the depth of a kitchen sink. Vetra Nyx would have been uber-popular had she been a squadmate on the Normandy - Nyreen Kandros is popular despite being featured only in the worst ME3 DLC available - but she was part of a story no one cared about.

I mean, Bioware has a history of characters elevating its story, but there is only so much characters can do. Even the greatest squadmates cannot make a totally uninteresting story engaging.

Also, there's nothing "unsafe" or "controversial" in Mordin, Tali, Garrus or Grunt (especially Grunt, seriously). They're just well-written and part of a fantastic universe and storyline. No one, absolutely no one asked for the genophage arc to be rewritten because "bio-neutering is offensive". No one asked for the Quarian-Geth war to be changed because "genocide should not be talked about" or "we don't endorse violence towards artificial intelligence".

Tali could have been unsafe if she was actually unambiguously and unrepentantly racist towards geth. If activating Legion led to her leaving the party and becoming an antagonist. That's pretty far from the case.

It's seriously annoying to see "SJW" being blamed for all the bad writing at hand.

There has been great SJW content, there has been horrendous SJW content. There has been great non-SJW content, there has been horrendous non-SJW content. There's no real correlation between diversity of the cast or including LGBT characters, and quality of writing. If you are a great writer, you can add as much SJW stuff you want, your story will still be fucking fantastic. If you can't write a good story to save your life, you can try and be as uncontroversial as possible to avoid to be accused of pandering, and it will still suck.

TL;DR: The Witcher 3, Mass Effect OT - well-written. MEA - badly written. SJW status - irrelevant.

[magnuskn]

I am now engaged in a RP-session, so I can't respond in depth for the next few hours. But I think my first point stands, that there is a correlation between trying to remove "controversial" parts in the newer games and the blandness of the writing. I'll get back to it later, after I'm done being a gamemaster for three friends for a few hours.

[Alienmorph]

The bigger issues in BW have been unveiled already, and the fact they can't keep around a director even long enough to finish a glorified re-release of stuff they already made, only confirms those major issues are still there. Which I believe surprises nobody.

Also please... point me in the direction of "good SJW content", because I believe that to be quite an oximoron.

There is good progressive\inclusive content, and we can always use more of that, but I wouldn't call that SJW in a million years. SJW is not "let's make a story with a main character that isn't a white straight macho man" and it has never been, except in the minds of very few and very loud stupid people. If you went with that logic movies like Alien would be SJW, half of every tv show made in the last 20 years would be SJW, and so on. You seem to want to equate a perfectly normal and healty wish for more variety and representation in media with what the Twitter mob and certain journalists, pseudo-intellectuals, all around hypocrites and gatekeepers try to make pass for "progressive". I've always seen SJW or "woke stuff" as the extemization and exploitation of liberals and progressive values, never as said values themselves.

So... a "good" version of that? Seems like an enormous contradiction to me.

[Sinekein]

Also please... point me in the direction of "good SJW content", because I believe that to be quite an oximoron.

There is good progressive\inclusive content, and we can always use more of that, but I wouldn't call that SJW in a million years. SJW is not "let's make a story with a main character that isn't a white straight macho man" and it has never been, except in the minds of very few and very loud stupid people. If you went with that logic movies like Alien would be SJW, half of every tv show made in the last 20 years would be SJW, and so on. You seem to want to equate a perfectly normal and healty wish for more variety and representation in media with what the Twitter mob and certain journalists, pseudo-intellectuals, all around hypocrites and gatekeepers try to make pass for "progressive". I've always seen SJW or "woke stuff" as the extemization and exploitation of liberals and progressive values, never as said values themselves.

I cannot solve this conundrum.

If I give you example of fucking fantastic content that includes a ton of themes that people claim makes content "SJW", you'll say "No, that doesn't count, it's not SJW because it's good". Like Mad Max Fury Road, or the Watchmen TV series, or Jessica Jones. All those are pretty in-your-face about tackling sexism and/or racism and include diverse casts.

If I mention, say, Ghostbusters - then that counts: it's bad, because it's SJW. While in actuality it's bad because it's fucking bad.

And the rest isn't SJW because...well, because it's good. If MMFR had the same cast but was a fucking trainwreck, you bet your ass you would count it as "SJW ruining yet another movie franchise". Buuuuut MMFR is the greatest actioner of the decade so instead it's "a movie that promotes more variety and representation in media", even when it literally features a scene of women removing chastity belts on-screen.

So I cannot answer you. I can point to great stories that talk about diversity, representation or racism, and you'll say "yeah they're good, they're not SJW".

And yet, Bioware adding Krem is SJW because errrm...DA3 is disappointing I guess? Suddenly that one dumb trans NPC in Andromeda is enough for that game being labelled SJW? If you add just that character to ME2 or ME3, does that suddenly make them SJW games that suck?

And what about Mass Effect actually? In 1, only 1 pseudo-LGBT option. In 3, suddenly you get, the horror, two 100% gay characters, and one of them even, shudders, becomes bisexual. I suppose that explains why players were dissatisfied with the game as a whole, does it? It's clearly the addition to this SJW content that led to Hudson and Walters creating the dumb as fuck ending?

You're asking me to fit a square in a circle. I cannot do that. The entire premise of the question is flawed because the SJW flag is actually related to writing quality, not writing content. It pretends to be about content, but it is not.

[Alienmorph]

You're asking me to fit a square in a circle. I cannot do that. The entire premise of the question is flawed because the SJW flag is actually related to writing quality, not writing content. It pretends to be about content, but it is not.

But that IS exactly the problem. SJW writing hinges on the pretense that themses and context make for good stories, now matter how awfully made everything else is. Take Star Trek Discovery: everything in that series revolves around the main character. Literally nobody is capable of getting dick done without her around and even when other characters get a bit of development is flipped around so that it only matters because it somehow affects the main character. If the lead was still a William Shatner type of person, the show would be blasted into oblivion by critics and journalists, righfully so indeed... but since they got a woman of color that somehow means it's an "inspiring and empowering" work of fiction and that only racist people dislike it.

It's basically the equivalent of a pothead art colledge student throwing some blobs of paint on a canvase and accidentally spilling their coffee over it at the end, and then pretending it's some groundbreaking piece of "non traditional art" and you're too dumb to appreciate it. Thus I find very baffling the notion there could be a "good version" of that, or that a piece of art could be considered "pothead art" just because it uses similar materials.

[magnuskn]

Alright, just got finished with my RP group, where I managed, the first time in 20 years, to TPK (total party kill) the party. I saved the situation with an NPC coming in to pull them out of the fire, but otherwise that would have been it for the campaign. Quite the experience.

Anyway, back to the discussion. First off, I have to presume that our definition what "SJW" constitutes differs somewhat individually. As Alienmorph pointed out, progressive and inclusive content goes back many years in Hollywood and entertainment and never was seen as a bad thing by the vast majority of moviegoers. SJW content, as I would define it, i.e. identity politics bullshit and censorious political correctness, has been a much more recent introduction into the entertainment industry as a major element and has been almost universally a bad thing, from where I see it.

Sinekein, you mention Ghostbusters and deny that it was bad because it contained SJW (I'll use that acronym because IdPol and PC together are longer) content, mentioning instead that it was just badly written. While it indubitably was badly written overall, the inclusion of pretty damn obvious disdain for any male character in the movie didn't help at all and only served to put off more viewers.

The inclusion of gay or trans characters doesn't bother me at all and doesn't detract a bit from a well told story. But if the story then would push an agenda which depicts those characters as morally superior to cis white men in general, that for me would detract from the story, because it would be putting agenda before story. If the roles were reversed (i.e. cis white men are all morally superior to gay and trans characters), the same would apply.

While I personally despise Youtube channels like Geeks & Gamers or The Quartering, which thrive on exploiting the schism between SJW and anti-SJW factions, it is not as if there doesn't seem to be a correlation between agenda writing and bad entertainment. To take the very obvious example, Rey Palpatine is a Mary Sue par excellence and that helped dragged down the new Star Wars trilogy immensely. Mulan also was written as one of those "super-women without faults and struggles" characters and that also was a big part what did that movie in.

A short mention of The Witcher 3 again: What I meant to say is that CD Project Red did not have a problem of depicting deeply traumatic and sickening content in their game or just the seediest sides of humanity. They didn't do it for shock value alone (mostly... looking at you, Whoreson Junior), but because it enhanced the dark fantasy world they were trying to recreate. That Geralt is a morally better character than most of the others not in his immediate circle is good, but he still has to live in a world which is way darker than what you see in most other mainstream fantasy universes. That doesn't mean that the writers can't include strong women, progressive ideas and the like, but those are experienced through the lense of a world in which living is a terrible and terrifying existence for most people. Compared to that, Mass Effect Andromeda and even Dragon Age Inquisition were pretty damn tame and bland.

BTW, Tali *was* unrepentantly racist towards the Geth, until she got better information through Legion. She grew as a character, had to overcome flaws. That makes her a better character for it.

Anyway, I hope the Remaster doesn't cut out content in the way Alienmorph fears.

[Sinekein]

But that IS exactly the problem. SJW writing hinges on the pretense that themses and context make for good stories, now matter how awfully made everything else is. Take Star Trek Discovery: everything in that series revolves around the main character. Literally nobody is capable of getting dick done without her around and even when other characters get a bit of development is flipped around so that it only matters because it somehow affects the main character. If the lead was still a William Shatner type of person, the show would be blasted into oblivion by critics and journalists, righfully so indeed... but since they got a woman of color that somehow means it's an "inspiring and empowering" work of fiction and that only racist people dislike it.

I mean, I'm not a trekkie at all, I've only seen the two recent movies with Chris Pine, but still: if it were that popular, I'd have heard about it. If it was a tremendous success pushed only by some SJW lobby forcing mediocrity into the mainstream, or if it had garnered critical acclaim, I assume I'd have at least gotten echoes.

It got an 85% RT which for a TV show is not exactly a sign of utmost quality - they get far less reviews for TV shows than they do movies. So it's not a critics' darling. It's lower than Legends of Tomorrow, which, while being unbelievably entertaining, is the embodiment of cheesy stuff.

And it's like that for basically everything that is accused of being "SJW pandering": it's not actually very successful, and it makes much more noise on Twitter because of people trading insults than it does on the cultural scene. It has become an easy way to get publicity for people who produce something mediocre, as they know that a couple ingredients or marketing comments are sure to make some people mad, which in turn will push others to defend them on principle. And it actually works.

Now I would like to know what in BW's history hints towards such pandering. Quality decline does not always equate with pandering. It's not pandering that turned Andromeda into a failure. I mean, there hasn't even been much insults being traded, because in the end the game was just so bland there was no reason to get angry over it. I just remember the issue with Ryder's face being that of a "normal woman", but honestly? Ryder looking normal instead of a model would never have made any noise - the problem is that Ryder looked like a goblin no matter how much you played with the editor. That debate sounded a lot like game devs trying to cover their asses because their character creator looked like shit, not like them intentionally making Ryder ugly.

So I don't see why we should suddenly be wary of some "SJWctification" in the ME remaster, coming from a studio that has not really done anything of note in that regard yet. For example:

The inclusion of gay or trans characters doesn't bother me at all and doesn't detract a bit from a well told story. But if the story then would push an agenda which depicts those characters as morally superior to cis white men in general, that for me would detract from the story, because it would be putting agenda before story. If the roles were reversed (i.e. cis white men are all morally superior to gay and trans characters), the same would apply.

I mean, the worst Bioware has done in that regard is Shepard's comment to Wrex when he starts saying how much female krogans talk. Both Shepards say that he should listen because they have good ideas. That's about the extent of jabs regarding "moral superiority" we can see in the entire ME trilogy. I've only played DAO but I don't recall some trans/racial/gender superiority subtext being depicted as good.

While I personally despise Youtube channels like Geeks & Gamers or The Quartering, which thrive on exploiting the schism between SJW and anti-SJW factions, it is not as if there doesn't seem to be a correlation between agenda writing and bad entertainment. To take the very obvious example, Rey Palpatine is a Mary Sue par excellence and that helped dragged down the new Star Wars trilogy immensely. Mulan also was written as one of those "super-women without faults and struggles" characters and that also was a big part what did that movie in.

I don't want to enter in a SW argument there. I disliked 7 and 8 to the point of not seeing 9, however, Rey is far from the main reason those movies were disappointing. 7 sucked because it was a complete unoriginal rehash of 4, and 8 sucked because it has the worst pacing and worst twists an AAA movie has ever seen (and it has sooo many of them...). I'm not really invested in the original SW trilogy, I much prefer the Old Republic stuff or even the Clone Wars era, so honestly I wasn't even bothered by what happened to old characters, but apparently that was another touchy subject. If Rey being a Mary Sue was the only, or even a main issue of those movies, they would have been box-office triumphs. That was extremely far from the case.

As for linking Mulan to SJW...okay, I don't know how to put it, but I don't think you could be more wrong, at least when it comes to who Disney was pandering to. That entire movie was created to pander to Chinese audiences. Chinese people are pretty distinct from SJW. Maybe some SJW-friendly people liked it on Twitter, but I am 100% sure that was an accidental side-effect. If Mulan is a superwoman without faults and struggles, it's so that Chinese people feel empowered and happy. They seem to be a pretty intensely patriotic bunch, so giving Mulan flaws would have been a surefire way to get a Twitter/Weibo boycott campaign that could cost Mickey billions. So --> perfect heroine. If liberal people in the US are happy about it, that's at the very best a nice side bonus, because that is absolutely not the point.

If you want proof of what actually matters more for Disney between pleasing China or SJWs, look no further than Doctor Strange.

A short mention of The Witcher 3 again: What I meant to say is that CD Project Red did not have a problem of depicting deeply traumatic and sickening content in their game or just the seediest sides of humanity. They didn't do it for shock value alone (mostly... looking at you, Whoreson Junior), but because it enhanced the dark fantasy world they were trying to recreate. That Geralt is a morally better character than most of the others not in his immediate circle is good, but he still has to live in a world which is way darker than what you see in most other mainstream fantasy universes. That doesn't mean that the writers can't include strong women, progressive ideas and the like, but those are experienced through the lense of a world in which living is a terrible and terrifying existence for most people. Compared to that, Mass Effect Andromeda and even Dragon Age Inquisition were pretty damn tame and bland.

Andromeda and Inquisition were bland not because writers felt like they could not talk about this and that because that would be touchy. They were bland because the writers were bad. I can mostly talk about Andromeda, but it was pretty hard to create some meaningful stakes and topics when your universe is totally empty and uninteresting. The Rannoch arc works because we have known about Tali and the Geth for three games. Tuchanka, same thing. Andromeda could have at least aimed for some big moments towards the end, but the game is so...nothing that you don't care more forty hours in that you do when you start the game.

The good writers left, it's simple as that.

Also, Andromeda is a completely bland universe, while TW's is a super interesting one. Note however how their most successful game is not the one in which writers took liberties with canon (1 and 2, which all in all don't really matter for TW3), but the one that is actually a direct sequel to Sapkowski's books. The one in which Ciri is pretty much a deuteragonist, and in which Yen is essential. With Dijkstra or Fringilla, with Régis and Anna Henrietta. It's much easier to do something great when you have super solid foundations, even if, again, I don't want to take anything out of CDPR's writing team because they were awesome (O'Dimm is 100% theirs, for example).

So, bottom line - I don't get why SJW pandering is suddenly an issue with Bioware. It hasn't been in the past, why would it now when they are supposed to deliver a product aimed at nostalgic players? There is nothing in the OT that can be seen as "touchy" with 2020 goggles but was "okay" with 2010 ones.

[TheodoricFriede]

Just a reminder that in Mass Effect Andromeda they suddenly decided that asari, who are a mono-gendered race (an asari even calls you out on it in Mass Effect 2), could identify as male, female, or neither.

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoQ87lrKW8

[Dragaros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eq7zJFORM

[Dragaros]

https://www.ea.com/games/dragon-age

A note to the Dragon Age community from Executive Producer Christian Dailey

[[ Happy Dragon Age Day!

I’d like to extend a huge thank you to Laura, Casey and Mark for their kind words yesterday, and confidence in me during this transition. Casey and Mark, who I’ve worked with over the last three years have both been such a positive influence, and I have learned so much from them. It is bittersweet indeed. I am going to miss working with them every day, but I know we will remain friends and I am excited for them as they embark on their next adventures.

Obviously stepping into this role on Dragon Age after Mark is a bit humbling. Mark is someone that I look up to and is a true BioWare legend. We all hope to make him proud as we look to deliver the best Dragon Age story yet, otherwise we know we’ll hear about it….

I am really looking forward to getting to know all of you and sharing insights into the development as we move into next year. If you already follow me on Twitter, you know I like to share details throughout the dev process and I hope to do the same as we continue our work on Dragon Age.

In the meantime, check out the new Dragon Age website that launched today that includes some cool new stories and illustrations.

Looking forward to sharing more soon.

Have a great Dragon Age Day, and a safe, relaxing holiday, all. ]]

[Dragaros]

"Check out Minrathous Shadows, a Dragon Age short story by Sheryl Chee."



"Check out The Wake, a Dragon Age short story by Mary Kirby."



"Check out Ruins of Reality, a Dragon Age short story by John Dombrow."



"Check out The Next One, a Dragon Age short story by Brianne Battye."

[Dragaros]

https://www.gematsu.com/2020/12/next-dr ... wards-2020

https://twitter.com/thegameawards/statu ... 8619037697

https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/statu ... 9378507778

[magnuskn]

So, bottom line - I don't get why SJW pandering is suddenly an issue with Bioware. It hasn't been in the past, why would it now when they are supposed to deliver a product aimed at nostalgic players? There is nothing in the OT that can be seen as "touchy" with 2020 goggles but was "okay" with 2010 ones.

I'll leave it just at trying to make the point again that idpol agenda writing always seems to make the final product worse than what it could have been otherwise, because it sucks out creativity to make a point about the idpol agenda writing. Now, that could come down to what you see as the main point, i.e. the writers are simply bad, or more to my point, that the inclusion of idpol agenda writing makes the writing worse. But it has been a noticeable trend over the last half decade at least.

I could go into more detail, but to make a truly coherent point (which I really didn't make yet), that would require writing a huge screed which includes where the US is politically at. And I don't want to do that, because I actually have shit I need to get done this weekend, since Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out next week and then I'll be totally done with the world at large for a few weeks after that. ^^

A last point to Mulan, however, I don't think that the writing of Mulans character was exactly for the Chinese people. Not only have they themselves written much better versions of Mulan and their female characters in other movies span a wide gamut of personalities and characteristics, but the Chinese viewers actually were pretty offended by the movie itself. No, the writing of Mulans character in the latest release more conforms to a stereotype of Stronk Womyn which has been quite endemic in non-Marvel movies from Disney lately. An emotionally aloof independent woman, with no romances to speak of (because that would make her weak to men) and no real weaknesses. And that is bad writing, because it serves an agenda.

[TTTX]

A last point to Mulan, however, I don't think that the writing of Mulans character was exactly for the Chinese people. Not only have they themselves written much better versions of Mulan and their female characters in other movies span a wide gamut of personalities and characteristics, but the Chinese viewers actually were pretty offended by the movie itself. No, the writing of Mulans character in the latest release more conforms to a stereotype of Stronk Womyn which has been quite endemic in non-Marvel movies from Disney lately. An emotionally aloof independent woman, with no romances to speak of (because that would make her weak to men) and no real weaknesses. And that is bad writing, because it serves an agenda.

Even the Chinese hate the movie and Chinese government hate the movie for bring attention to their concentration camps.

[Sinekein]

Just a reminder that in Mass Effect Andromeda they suddenly decided that asari, who are a mono-gendered race (an asari even calls you out on it in Mass Effect 2), could identify as male, female, or neither.

If you're talking about Aethyta and the "anthropocentric bag of dicks" line, there's no contradiction between what she says and asari identifying as whatever they want. It's mentioned that everyone finds asari attractive, not that everyone finds asari female. You even have male, gay characters mentioning that they are attracted to asari if memory serves.

A last point to Mulan, however, I don't think that the writing of Mulans character was exactly for the Chinese people. Not only have they themselves written much better versions of Mulan and their female characters in other movies span a wide gamut of personalities and characteristics, but the Chinese viewers actually were pretty offended by the movie itself. No, the writing of Mulans character in the latest release more conforms to a stereotype of Stronk Womyn which has been quite endemic in non-Marvel movies from Disney lately. An emotionally aloof independent woman, with no romances to speak of (because that would make her weak to men) and no real weaknesses. And that is bad writing, because it serves an agenda.

When you don't like the personality of a character, you're not "offended" by a movie, you just dislike it. You don't start a "boycott Disney" campaign because Mulan is depicted as being "too heroic" or because you're unhappy with her romantic subplots. You state that you'd have done better as social network people are used to do, then you move on.

However, you can actually be "offended" if you think the character attacks you on a personal level, which might have been the case had Disney given her a flaw that could be perceived as a direct attack on Chinese patriotic pride, given that she is a prominent folk heroine.

If you create a perfect character, you'll make people who are neutral towards it angry, but neutral people don't tend to be that much of a problem, since they tend to move on. However, if you create a flawed character, especially one that has such a place in Chinese folklore, you might draw the ire of uber-patriotic people, and those make a lot more noise when they disagree with something. They will feel that this flaw is an insult to their nation. That won't happen with a "perfect Mulan", you'll get some background noise and then nothing.

Besides, "strong, independent" has become a cliché to describe female characters, but...I mean, is this an issue? Male heroes have been strong and independent since movies have existed. As for flaws, we literally had to wait until Die Hard to see a badass male lead who also was a flawed human being, so it's not like "emotionally aloof independent men and no real weaknesses" doesn't exist. And John McClane worked so well because he came after decades of perfect guys saving the day and getting the girl; he wouldn't have worked quite as well in a vacuum. Right now we are finally (I mean, it's been what, less than 10 years? It's not like we are drowned under that stereotype since forever) getting actual independent female leads, so they are still rather archetypal. Once the archetype is defined enough, we'll get the deconstructions, but you need the cliché to be established enough to start deconstructing it - and you need more than Rey, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel to say "okay that's enough now we have to move on".

Even the Chinese hate the movie and Chinese government hate the movie for bring attention to their concentration camps.

Erm, the concentration camps thing has nothing to do with Mulan's personality. Disney could have created a blockbuster about Chinese food and it still would have brought attention to the Uighur situation.

Besides, the criticism regarding Mulan's personality is not due to her being flawless - it's due to her being flawless to begin with, ie not struggling to reach her status. Chinese people don't care that Mulan ends up as a perfect badass strong independent woman, they care that she does so because she was born perfect, instead of having to earn her reputation and her talent through trials. So that's not "progressive agenda at work", that's poor writing, and deep misunderstanding of the meaning of a character - they wrote Mulan as if she was Clark Kent, but for some reason Chinese and US people have wildly different myths and values. Who knew.

Also apparently the whole movie was full of stereotypes and misunderstandings regarding Chinese culture at large.

[magnuskn]

Besides, "strong, independent" has become a cliché to describe female characters, but...I mean, is this an issue? Male heroes have been strong and independent since movies have existed. As for flaws, we literally had to wait until Die Hard to see a badass male lead who also was a flawed human being, so it's not like "emotionally aloof independent men and no real weaknesses" doesn't exist. And John McClane worked so well because he came after decades of perfect guys saving the day and getting the girl; he wouldn't have worked quite as well in a vacuum. Right now we are finally (I mean, it's been what, less than 10 years? It's not like we are drowned under that stereotype since forever) getting actual independent female leads, so they are still rather archetypal. Once the archetype is defined enough, we'll get the deconstructions, but you need the cliché to be established enough to start deconstructing it - and you need more than Rey, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel to say "okay that's enough now we have to move on".

"Strong, independent" women have been in action cinema forever. But they were not imbued with sexless, mary-sueish perfection, like Rey, Mulan, etc. They had struggles and flaws. They grew as characters. They were better characters than what the modern paradigm now is. I.e., agenda writing produces worse characters.

[Sinekein]

Forever? Female action leads?

I mean, there's Ripley, who is not exactly the most flawed character around. The Bride from Kill Bill maybe? That's one example, and not a very old one. There have been prominent, layered female action leads for a while...just not in the US. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is from Hong Kong & China, House of Flying Daggers is from China, Nikita is from France, and none are nearly as prominent culturally as the examples mentioned before.

You had a ton of female characters with next to no depth but that were pleasing to the eye however, like Selene in Underworld or Jolie's Tomb Raider (or Jolie in Wanted) or Milla Jovovich in Resident Evil. Those have been for the longest time, infinitely more common than actual, proper female action leads.

Plus, I mean, Wonder Woman or Mad Max: Fury Road have strong, independent women without much in the ways of flaws (Black Panther has several but not in the main role). It's just that their stories are properly written, so you don't focus on those issues - unless you are obsessed with it as some seem to be.

When the writing blows, as is the case in that SW trilogy, then you start actually looking at what's not working and end up seeing that, yes, there is a huge hole in lieu of character development. But again, it's not Rey that ruins Star Wars 7-9, and it's not Mulan's personality that made it unsuccessful. When your story sucks, you start looking at how good characters are, and sometimes they can rescue it all to a degree, but it's not the other way around.