Politics/Slapfights - Ancient history to modern day!

[Alienmorph]

Also, how is that whole "Defund the police!!!!" thing working out, now that the vandals breaking shit up don't get the approval of the social media addicts?

[Mazder]

Well they've reached the offices.
So, if those machines weren't logged off or shut down, yeah personal files are at risk.
Which could be bad.

[Mazder]

"When the looting starts, the shooting starts" doesn't apply here apparently.

[Sinekein]

Also, how is that whole "Defund the police!!!!" thing working out, now that the vandals breaking shit up don't get the approval of the social media addicts?

They didn't defund the police yet though.

Some might say the police would have reacted slightly more violently if those were BLM protesters, but hopefully we never find out if that's true.

Still, got to hand it to the right-wingers, they have already surpassed four years of left-wing riots on day minus 14 of being in the opposition.

[Alienmorph]

Yeah, I might be snarky as a coping mechanism, but this is no laughing matter. This is going to haunt us all in the West for years, decades even.

Biden at least is on stage, trying to be the better man.

[Alienmorph]

I just seen a "God Help Us All" speech. Like we're in a fucking disaster movie.

[TheodoricFriede]

Ooooh I missed the rest of that gem. Feels like perfect time to answer it, doesn't it ?

1.) Suck my asshole.

2.) Neither does Donald Trump

3.) Same in the US, dumbass

4.) This is doomed to failure. Utterly absurd. And a mob of idiots is hardly the fucking brownshirts.

[TTTX]

I just seen a "God Help Us All" speech. Like we're in a fucking disaster movie.

if they think it's so bad now (because of a couple of terrorist), I wonder what they'll say when World War 3 starts.

[Sinekein]

asshole

Yeah that kinda sums up most of your posts. Showing up, dismissing/insulting (or both) anyone disagreeing with you, running away/blocking if they bother to answer.

Also @the double digit IQ thing, I seem to remember you prefering Trump to Biden in past comments. So "same in the US"?

[FrozenShadow]

I just seen a "God Help Us All" speech. Like we're in a fucking disaster movie.

Well, considering the how the Covid had been reaping people and economy in USA, and now this "crumbling" of the state.....well the idea of this whole thing feeling like disaster movie isn't so far-fetched. After all, this is exactly what happens in those movies.

Just too bad that we live in real world, so there won't be a any heroic survivals/sacrifice moment at the end. Even learning from your mistakes and being more humble in the future is rather questionable opportunity right now. So badly Trump's four years had divided/messed up the country.

[Alienmorph]

This is 2021 we were supposed to be putting people on Mars at this point. Instead I feel like I'm watching the fall of the Roman Empire.

[TheodoricFriede]

Yeah that kinda sums up most of your posts. Showing up, dismissing/insulting (or both) anyone disagreeing with you, running away/blocking if they bother to answer.

Also @the double digit IQ thing, I seem to remember you preferring Trump to Biden in past comments. So "same in the US"?

Sine, I have too much shit to worry about than some dipshit Frenchman with too much time on his hands.

I wanted Trump To win. I also saw that as impossible 3am election eve. You can ask anyone I bet with about that. Currently I believe that Trump should be formally and symbolically Impeached (and possibly convicted) again before he officially steps down in a week.

It really isn't a great look for the US right now. But hey, at least the "protesters" in the US aren't cutting the heads off of teachers.

[Sinekein]

Sine, I have too much shit to worry about than some dipshit Frenchman with too much time on his hands.

I wanted Trump To win. I also saw that as impossible 3am election eve. You can ask anyone I bet with about that. Currently I believe that Trump should be formally and symbolically Impeached (and possibly convicted) again before he officially steps down in a week.

It really isn't a great look for the US right now. But hey, at least the "protesters" in the US aren't cutting the heads off of teachers.

Obviously, I'm French, I'm lazy and don't know what to do with my time, hence why I have an interest about what happens in the world. If I really had a life I would spend my time wisely by playing videogames. Where has my life gone wrong I wonder.

You wanted Trump to win. He hasn't really changed his behavior in four years, right now is a logical consequence of what happened before, you seem fine with it. Seems logical since it does not affect you personally or your money I guess, which is more or less where your moral compass seems to be.

I mean, in France, teacher's heads are being cut, but I guess at least school shootings are a rarity right? Jeez, you're such a cunt.

[Mazder]

Seriously though Theo, why did you want Trump to win?

If what we're seeing today is a culmination of Trump still being around, as he is, why did you want him to win?

[TheodoricFriede]

You wanted Trump to win. He hasn't really changed his behavior in four years, right now is a logical consequence of what happened before, you seem fine with it. Seems logical since it does not affect you personally or your money I guess, which is more or less where your moral compass seems to be.

I mean, in France, teacher's heads are being cut, but I guess at least school shootings are a rarity right? Jeez, you're such a cunt.

Dont you fucking presume to speak for me you sack of shit. You have no idea what kind of emotional turmoil this shit brings me. You cant even begin to image. It is the most disgusting shit i have seen in my 30 years of life in this country.

But none of that changes the fact that you are a troll and an asshole. You do nothing in this group but bitch about the US. Your first interaction with me when you came back to this group was calling me a racist for not liking Black Panther.

So go fuck yourself, and take your hypocritical francophile bullshit with you. You bring nothing to this group and never have.

[TheodoricFriede]

Seriously though Theo, why did you want Trump to win?

If what we're seeing today is a culmination of Trump still being around, as he is, why did you want him to win?

Why did you vote for Brexit? Are you a white supremacist Mazdar? Do you hate Muslims Mazdar? Do you? You must right because you voted for Brexit.
Or maybe you just made a decision based on the information you had at the time.

Because a two months and some days ago he was a loudmouth that got enough done that i figured he deserved a second term, not a fucking cult leader. Are you happy with that answer?

[Mazder]

Why did you vote for Brexit? Are you a white supremacist Mazdar? Do you hate Muslims Mazdar? Do you? You must right because you voted for Brexit.
Or maybe you just made a decision based on the information you had at the time.

Because a two months and some days ago he was a loudmouth that got enough done that i figured he deserved a second term, not a fucking cult leader. Are you happy with that answer?

National border control following a refugee influx and terrorist attacks and allocation of resources on the small island nation.
Those were the reasons that swayed be at the time.

What were your reasons?
Just saying there was information had at the time doesn't get any closer to your actual reasons. What was the "enough done" that you thought he could go through for you?

Poor responses during the Pandemic? Abandoning a global accord to curb climate change? Poor public relations with African Americans? Publicly supporting conspiracy theories even back then? Sewing distrust and division in the American people to a greater extent? Ruining the economy he was coasting with?
The best thing I can think of is him being the incumbent for the Republican Party but that's not necessarily a reason, more like the default.

Dont you fucking presume to speak for me you sack of shit. You have no idea what kind of emotional turmoil this shit brings me. You cant even begin to image. It is the most disgusting shit i have seen in my 30 years of life in this country.

But none of that changes the fact that you are a troll and an asshole. You do nothing in this group but bitch about the US. Your first interaction with me when you came back to this group was calling me a racist for not liking Black Panther.

So go fuck yourself, and take your hypocritical francophile bullshit with you. You bring nothing to this group and never have.

I mean he brought more than your constant bitchfits at Mobius.

And, yeah, everyone will bitch about the USA.
I mean, holding the "greatest nation on earth"/"number 1 nation" to account/being critical of it is not really that much of a bad thing.

[TheodoricFriede]

At least the conservative outlets call a spade a fucking spade.

[TheodoricFriede]

Just saying there was information had at the time doesn't get any closer to your actual reasons. What was the "enough done" that you thought he could go through for you?

I mean he brought more than your constant bitchfits at Mobius.

He was good for the economy, told China to fuck off, and slowed down the illegal immigration crisis at the border. Considering he did more than nothing, I figured he deserved as much time as the previous president.
And by the way I didn't vote for anyone.

I do not interact with that person and have not since the rules were established. Nor do I ever wish to.
But while we are at it, eat a dick Mazdar.

[Alienmorph]

Welp, so now Washington is full of nervous cops and of people itching for a fight. And it's gonna be curfew time soon.

Yeah, I'm sure tomorrow morning I'll wake up and nothing would have happened...

[Mobius_118]

You'll always be a fucking spaz.

What we're watching right now is a bunch of children having a tantrum. A tantrum that'll cost lives, although the police sure aren't doing anything to stop them. It's such a sad fucking display of a child's mentality that any doubt that I was right the whole time should be dispelled.

Trump did exactly what I said he would, as did his followers. This shit is like a cancer, and needs to be cut out. The cops clearly won't do their jobs here, but they're more than willing to kill BLM protesters, kids, whoever else, just not the wannabe fascists who don't want fair elections.

Secret Service and the DC police should have done their goddamn jobs.

[Sinekein]

Dont you fucking presume to speak for me you sack of shit. You have no idea what kind of emotional turmoil this shit brings me. You cant even begin to image. It is the most disgusting shit i have seen in my 30 years of life in this country.

Are you telling me that in ten years, you are, for the first time, caring for something that is neither yourself nor your bank account? Today really is memorable and should be remembered forever and ever.

But none of that changes the fact that you are a troll and an asshole.

Aww, and here I thought we were friends! You are such a pleasure to be around, always bringing good mood, and never dropping randomly in conversations to add snide comments and insults, especially not in days that end in -y. I'm sure you're super popular at parties too with that great attitude you always display.

But still, to that comment, I say...

You do nothing in this group but bitch about the US.

If I were a bit pedantic, which for some reason I'm feeling like being, I would say that you just happen to only come up and interact with me in this thread with your stellar manners whenever I am indeed critical of the US. You never bother doing so when I don't talk about it, which happens fairly regularly. Maybe because you don't give a shit about anything but where you live? Just hypothesis.

Your first interaction with me when you came back to this group was calling me a racist for not liking Black Panther.

You know, I'll give you that one, I was eating quite a lot of SJW crap back in the day. I also think I have mellowed down since on those matters. Which you would know if it wasn't for bullet point above. Ask Alien, he's the one I tend to talk with on those subjects, and I think he's one of the few remaining people you haven't insulted yet? I might be mistaken, you tend to be super generous when being shitty towards people.

So go fuck yourself, and take your hypocritical francophile bullshit with you. You bring nothing to this group and never have.

Now now, it's not because Trump is leaving office that you are to fill in his boots when it comes to projecting.

It's also funny to be called a "hypocritical francophile" by the one guy who always jumps to defend America when it is attacked by mean words from dirty foreigners around here. You go boy!

[TheodoricFriede]

I can only assume you are masturbating to all of this.

[Sinekein]

I can only assume you are masturbating to all of this.

Your wit truly is endless.

But you have such a sexy personality, is there really any alternative?

[Mazder]

He was good for the economy, told China to fuck off, and slowed down the illegal immigration crisis at the border. Considering he did more than nothing, I figured he deserved as much time as the previous president.
And by the way I didn't vote for anyone.

I do not interact with that person and have not since the rules were established. Nor do I ever wish to.
But while we are at it, eat a dick Mazdar.

The economy, maybe, the pandemic kinda screwed with it and even if not it was all investment into short term gains like fossil fuels. Not a great move IMO if you take the whole moving away form the climate accords thing into account. On a pure quick money gain then yeah.
China fucking off, I agree with but that doesn't make him good for a governmental position. Anyone could have done that.
The illegal immigration crisis, jury is still out on that if the methods and rumours are to be believed.
I don't agree with what your choices were, I can understand why but I very much don't agree.

Well how can you even have a right to complain if you didn't even vote?
I mean, if you hate Sine criticizing the USA then at least be a part of the process if you wish to defend it, or at least want to be an advocate of him not criticizing it.

I can only assume you are masturbating to all of this.

And he's the asshole?

[Sinekein]

And he's the asshole?

Mazder, I'm French, you're English, that should be your logical conclusion.

Aaanyway, back to the interesting things at hand: apparently a woman was shot and killed within Capitol Hill (wtf), and two IEDs have been rendered safe by the FBI near the Capitol (wtf²).

Meanwhile, Trump keeps adding a big "but" to all his calls for restraint, as in "but I won a landslide so my supporters are rightfully angry".

[TheodoricFriede]

And he's the asshole?

Well considering all this started because 3 days ago I assumed that the President of the United States had at least one working braincell and he decided to dredge that up for no other reason than to specifically try to humiliate me, yes.

Considering he has insulted my moral fiber, yes.

[Sinekein]

Your what now?

So I went back to three days ago, and the first hostile part in our interaction if you can call it that is :

I hate this bullshit assumption Europeans have that America is only moments away from turning into a tinpot dictatorship.

Should I mention whether you or I said that?

Oh and there's your whole lunatic "WHAT IF" rant coming out of nowhere - which I did not see first because you edited it. You absolutely started this, and you're not even honest enough to admit it. Unless it's part of your moral fiber, I don't know.

Better even, you're calling me the troll. Well, I guess that'll teach me trying to have an adult conversation with someone who spouts one strawman after another.

[Mazder]

Mazder, I'm French, you're English, that should be your logical conclusion.

Yeah but between us it's just bantz.
We're both too far away from any actual old hatred as English and French.
Although I will always play the role because it's fun.

Well considering all this started because 3 days ago I assumed that the President of the United States had at least one working braincell and he decided to dredge that up for no other reason than to specifically try to humiliate me, yes.

Considering he has insulted my moral fiber, yes.

Well you know what they say about those that assume.
Ass (out of) u (and) me.

And your response to that was to act like you didn't have any?
Because if your morals are "fuck you frenchie I'm American USA USA USA!" then, honestly, as an Englishman I am siding with the Frenchman on this one.
And, hey, you could have just taken it on the chin and not risen to the bait. Just a tip in future.

[TheodoricFriede]

oh fuck this

[NCLanceman]

!	Message from: NCLanceman
	Theo, Sine. Stop it. Either discuss the news, insult/lionize public figures, compare political philosophy, or what have you, but don't insult each other. Next time I say this, I'm deleting posts.

[Mobius_118]

Don't bother, gentlemen. Merely existing is an affront to his mental state.

I offered a peaceful resolution, he rejected it purely because he's still a child.

As I watch all of this Capitol Hill breakdown, I can only hope that the FBI does their job and prosecute every single one of those traitors.

[Mazder]

It's really showing the obvious disparity of responses from the law enforcement in the USA.

If this was a BLM protest of the same kind then the National Guard would have rolled in much sooner with armoured APC's and water cannons and all that shit.

[Alienmorph]

That I can't deny. I still don't buy the whole "all cops are racists!" bullcrap, but pretending none of them are was ludicrous before this, and it's evene more so now that we have videos and pictures of pro-Trump cops taking selfies with the protesters who broke into the g'damn White House.

Still not something you'd solve by defunding (and then presumebly putting up a private-owned equivalent of) the police. If anything this further proof governments (I put mine into this too, we got a lot of asshole cops around here too) should always put some decent amount of care and support in their home sequirity... that way we wouldn't have to rely on certain kinds of chucklefucks just to have a bare minimum of police presence around.

[Sinekein]

People should not push for defunding the police, but should push for more control on how the police spends its money. Less military-grade gear, more training on how to handle stressful situations and defuse crises instead of causing them.

[Alienmorph]

Being a cop, especially a good cop, is a dangerous, underpaid, underfunded and underappreciated awful job. The reason there are so many bad cops is because there's little to no incentives for them to not get crooked, or for decent people to join the police to begin with, so more often than not you have to hire the nutjobs or the people who just want the authory to beat people into submission. I'd wholeheardly agree there's need to reform the way secury is handled in most western countries, the US especially, but acting like we'd just be better off without police? That's hilariously naive.

And again... what's the alternative? Privatize security? The same way the healthcare and a most decent schools are privatized in the US? Yeah, what could go wrong with that...

[Alienmorph]

So... turns out that this motherfuck who was one of the folks leading the charge in the White House dressed like Buffalo g'damn Bill...

... is of italian descent.

Yeeep. That checks out.

'fanculo...

Not that it would have been better if he wasn't, but it's like the cherry ontop of a nucking futs joke, at least for me.

[SciFlyBoy]

If this was a BLM protest of the same kind then the National Guard would have rolled in much sooner with armoured APC's and water cannons and all that shit.

[deleted irrelevant paragraph]

The only difference between the BLM protests and this one was that everyone knew BLM was going to the capitol buildings in advance while Trump at the last minute told his crowd to go to the capitol. The amount of cops they had for what was planned wasn't enough for what eventually happened. And at this point four protesters have died, one shot through the throat as she tried breaking down a door into the building.

[FrozenShadow]

Now that this Capitol debacle is over and Biden's win is lawfully confirmed, people have started to look at who to blame for this whole mess. And funny enough, now even Republicans seems to be really detail and even outright impeach Trump.

But people also seems to be asking, how Capitol Police and other workers there could've been so unprepared for what happened. Especially so, when they this whole Trump rally was about to happen for weeks. Yet, I think the ultimate reason for this is very simple.

No one in their right mind thought that this mob storming on Capitol and them taking it over was possible. Even if most sane people didn't like Biden's win, they still deeply respects democracy and democratic process. So, no one thought there were enough lunatics to what this mob eventually did.

And I also think that most of those people at Trump's rally didn't think in the morning when they woke up that "this afternoon, after Trumps rally and speech, we will be doing coup d'etat/open insurrection by taking over the our hearth of the government". I mean, people are tired of hearing this comparison by now, but it can't be helped. After all, who else kept great massive speeches that won over people and nation and got them do crazy things after years of doing those speeches? Well, Hitler of course. He managed to speak himself into a power by appealing to people with more than questionable message with full of blame targeting speeches. Yet he also managed to create this Mass psychogenic illness at people listening him, so that they forgot all rhyme and sense.

You know, exactly what Trump achieved with his speech. Now, this is extremely dangerous skill at the hands on narcissistic and not so sane person. And really, I think everyone in the world should be happy that Trump is so damn old. If he would be even 20 years younger, we would be in world full of shit in the future as Trump would've four years time to gather more supporters and make them even more rapid ones at that. But happily he will be too old for it in four years.

[FrozenShadow]

If this was a BLM protest of the same kind then the National Guard would have rolled in much sooner with armoured APC's and water cannons and all that shit.

[deleted irrelevant paragraph]

The only difference between the BLM protests and this one was that everyone knew BLM was going to the capitol buildings in advance while Trump at the last minute told his crowd to go to the capitol. The amount of cops they had for what was planned wasn't enough for what eventually happened. And at this point four protesters have died, one shot through the throat as she tried breaking down a door into the building.

Well, it was not exactly last minute plan. There had been quite a lot prior planning on various media. It's just that those places that it was done are really damn pro-Trump sites, so most normal people have no idea of their existence (I know I didn't). Granted, most of it seems to have started few weeks ago and most of serious plans was done just few days prior the speech and capitol rampage.

So, question isn't so much so if police or anyone knew something like this could happen. It's more of that no one believed that it could actually happen, especially on such important day. But I'm sure hindsight being 20-20, most people realize this is exactly what they should have expected to happen.

[Mobius_118]

They shouldn't have survived.

[Sinekein]

The only difference between the BLM protests and this one was that everyone knew BLM was going to the capitol buildings in advance while Trump at the last minute told his crowd to go to the capitol. The amount of cops they had for what was planned wasn't enough for what eventually happened. And at this point four protesters have died, one shot through the throat as she tried breaking down a door into the building.

There were signs. I think it was announced on the social media of the woman who got shot, and it's unlikely she was the only one.

Trump's throwing gasoline in the fire with his speech helped, but law enforcement also deeply underestimated the threat. For the last four years you have had hateful rhetoric towards anything government, it's not something that appeared out of thin air.

It's the first time right-wing demonstrations became this violent without there being any kind of standoff with counter-demonstrators too AFAIK. Well, recently that is, obviously the country has a history of violent right-wing demonstrations not requiring counter-protests, but it happened a while ago. I assume whoever is in charge of security in D.C. considered they were more bark than bite since (despite how the story has been spinned in some conservative circles) there was no left-wing or antifa here. I can somewhat understand them not thinking that the President of the United States would be the one to tell them to march on the Capitol, because, you know, he's the President of the United States.

That's the craziest thing of all really: it's the President of the U.S. who told his fans to march on Capitol Hill. Even if, in the end, it miserably failed, it's still a move that has been pulled repeatedly during various coups throughout history, and here it happened, in the U.S. - one of the few countries in the world AFAIK that has not experienced dictatorship - in 2021.

There is some schadenfreude however in the Catch-22 Trump finds himself into. Obviously, as per usual, he's only thinking about himself, so he either had to pull back and look like a weakling - the one thing he absolutely, utterly cannot stand, which has been in full display in his absolute refusal to admit he got beaten - or to double down with the gasoline and risk being the first POTUS being both demoted and jailed, because inciting a coup manoeuver should send you straight to jail. I don't know U.S. law, but if Nixon ended up impeached because he lied, I'm pretty sure sending your cronies to attack Congress is several degrees of magnitude worse.

Looks like he chose the former, and now the lunatics he has been enabling for the last five years are screaming about his betrayal. You reap what you sow, as they say. It reminded me a bit, to a degree, of the Narrator in Fight Club realizing that he was not in control of his creation at all anymore. Although I don't expect any heroics coming from Trump to correct his mistakes, if he was brave, he would have showed it at some point in his life.

[Vol]

Oh boy! As the long right-winger left, I gots a lots to say!

I think of storming the capital just like pulling a weapon on a cop. The only time you ever do it is if you intend to follow through to the bloody end, because the consequences are necessarily severe, as you're attacking a very visible representative of the country's power.

Either you're going to stage a coup, or you're not, and if you're not, stay out. If it is time to water the tree of liberty, then there won't be selfies and looting podiums while old people cower with plastic bags on their heads. The seat of Congress is not for a fun bit of vandalism after a party. Just like if you pull a gun on a cop, one of you is going to die. There is no peaceful outcome possible at that point. The dice are thrown, you don't get to walk away a free man ever again, but you might be quicker and have a chance to run.

Obviously in a more complicated, fluid scenario, there is nuance, no one really believes this was a coup despite the hyper-emotional anchors I watched, but the symbolism is blatant. As a big fan of symbolism, and immense dislike of Congress, I found the intrusion obnoxious, but cathartic, and ultimately harmful to the cause. That a woman was murdered, and a cop apparently also, while several died of medical conditions, is the tragedy. Life was lost for nothing of gain.

---

It is fascinating how right-wing violence, even the barest hint, is treated so much more seriously than any other. The immense hypocrisy after the summer of riots is obvious, there are plenty of quotes of the same people sputtering with indignation now floating around out there. But that leftist political violence is treated more or less as youthful emotional expression, while reactionary political violence is immediately horrifying and engages all aspects of law and total condemnation from persons of note is fascinating to me.

I might lack the perspective on this. So do you guys feel it's just an innately more serious act of violence because of the nature of the people? Because they are more likely to make it severe or carry it forward? I'm rather curious.

I struggle with separating what was drilled into my head growing up versus what I've reasoned myself to as an adult, so I do get stuck on "everyone is equal," very often. My default is to assume a sack of quarters being swung at someone's head carries equal weight regardless of the arm swinging it, social caste aside. But that's not the actual case, according to virtually everyone I see. There's a disconnect I need clarifying.

---

What else, what else...seems like the lack of police protection was on the mayor of DC, as Nat Guard were on standby, the rally was known weeks in advance, including a march to the capital, so unless I'm mistaken, she was the one with authority here.

Philosophically, if in fact you do believe the election was stolen, with the assistance of the press, the complicity of the parties, the silence of the judiciary, and the consent of Congress, then violent revolt is the most American you could do right now. Literally our founding principle. Why the reaction thus far has been a couple peaceful rallies and then this invasion of the capital is a complicated topic, so don't be worrying about the great zǒu zīběnzhǔyì dàolù de dāngquánpài uprising just yet.

That "Unity" Joe and his newly empowered majority are attempting to impeach, again, Trump, to prevent him from ever running again, while most of the GOP immediately pivots back to the neocons, is but one more sin on the stack. They're also talking about prosecuting him after he's out, going after notable supporters, social media bans across the board, and otherwise giving the sort of people who were at the rally some excellent reasons to be scared for both their country and their personal comforts.

---

People blaming Trump's speech is an interesting one. I would think the exactly same outcome would've happened regardless of him speaking, but I can't prove that. Giuliani's speech has an overt reference to "combat," but I doubt any (remotely fair) trial would hang a hat on that.

The premise here is that his plan was, what? Sneakily induce the revolution? Start a riot to scare Congress into tossing the electoral vote for the alternates? It makes no sense.

At very best you could argue it was an unintentional consequence of him riling people up, but that's entirely subjective. There is no speech anyone could give to make me do something I don't already want to do. And given how milquetoast the speech was, you're talking more of a cow kicking over a lantern in a hay-filled barn here.

[Sinekein]

It is fascinating how right-wing violence, even the barest hint, is treated so much more seriously than any other. The immense hypocrisy after the summer of riots is obvious, there are plenty of quotes of the same people sputtering with indignation now floating around out there. But that leftist political violence is treated more or less as youthful emotional expression, while reactionary political violence is immediately horrifying and engages all aspects of law and total condemnation from persons of note is fascinating to me.

Because there have been countless cases of right-wing coups starting with their cronies attacking the institutions to seize (more) power. Burning the Reichstag is the most obvious example, but it's far from the only one.

And more importantly, left-wing coups don't often topple republics and democracies. They tend to replace monarchies or dictatures (see: Russia, Cuba, Cambodia), with the only case I can think of being Mao in China, and it is very debatable how much of a republic/democracy the Kuomintang actually was. You have the case of Getulio Vargas in Brazil, but if you look at it he actually made the country more of a Republic than it was before.

On the other hand, right-wing coups have replaced democracies in Germany most famously, in Italy, arguably in France (Napoleon III, 1851), and in a ton of South American countries, more often than not with the blessing of the U.S. if not their outright military support - in Chile, Columbia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Bolivia... (the list is absurdly long).

Hence why people care a lot more when right-wingers march on the institutions.

[Mobius_118]

Pentagon denied the request for the deployment of the National Guard.

The woman wasn't murdered, she was a terrorist killed in an attack on Congress.

Apparently another terrorist went into cardiac arrest when he tasered himself in the nuts while trying to steal a painting. Another terrorist was trampled to death while holding a "Don't tread on me" flag.

Trump the fucking terrorist leader encouraged this, the DCPD let those terrorists in, and the Pentagon denied the NG.

The problem was no one believed that the whackos from the right would elevate themselves to terrorists and actually do it.

[Vol]

*snip*.

That would make sense if the USA had ever had that happen. I would wager that the average American probably could name 2 right-wing coups, tops.

(The Kuomintang were a proto-republic. The circumstances of unifying China from a bunch of warlord states into a nation required more time than they had before Mao came along.)

But if we distill the point down to a gut feeling a laymen would have, it makes more sense. Perhaps not articulate it. Which then raises the question if the belief has any validity given the reality of the political situation. I would expect leftist violence to be organized, sanctioned by power, and somewhat effective in goals. I would expect reactionary violence to be semi-organized, very small in numbers, and more directly destructive, but fundamentally unable to achieve non-material goals.

*snip*.

Trespassing and vandalism do not warrant the death penalty outside of clearly marked military installations. She was not an imminent threat to the life of anyone, nor was she armed, nor engaged in an action that would cause others to come to any harm.

[Mobius_118]

*snip*.

Trespassing and vandalism do not warrant the death penalty outside of clearly marked military installations. She was not an imminent threat to the life of anyone, nor was she armed, nor engaged in an action that would cause others to come to any harm.

Oh please, she was part of an attack on Congress.

EOD found IED's in and around the building. Fuck every terrorist there, send them all to Gitmo.

[Vol]

I hold the same standard for use of deadly force for Ashli Babbitt as for George Floyd. If both their deaths are justifiable, then our government isn't worth defending. If both deaths were wrong, then we can correct policy and procedure.

She was unarmed, she was not engaged in immediate violence, and whomever shot her did not know about any IEDs. It was wrongful.

[Mobius_118]

No mention of the DCPD who was beaten with a fire extinguisher and later died from his injuries.

The "Blue lives matter" folk sure love the police until they try to keep them from attacking motherfucking Congress.

She was involved in an attack on Congress. She was reportedly a 14 year veteran in the Air Force as well, she knew the rules of engagement.

[Vol]

I can't speak for the Blue Lives Matter guys, only that I've noticed them becoming quieter in the last year.

Well, then we differ on our ethical tolerance for use of deadly force by the state. I generally prefer, from most lax to most strict, the criteria for killing someone legally to go personal -> public -> government.

Defending yourself and home -> Defending someone else of imminent severe danger -> The state defending itself.